Regarding the Trivia namespace (crowner switched 20th Jan 2020)

Yeah, but the fact that such a contest exists is still trivia. It doesn't tell us anything about how certain archetypes, images or situations are used in the work.

It's not trivia. It's a technique used in media to increase audience engagement through participation. It's an Audience Participation trope.

(Also, tropes are not limited to archetypes, images, and situations, although in this case it's a situation anyway.)

edited 8th Oct '13 2:30:54 PM by troacctid

But unless the work shows the contest, we wouldn't necessarily know the contest occurred within the work. It's often behind-the-scenes, a production trope. It engages the audience, but it engages them outside of the work (usually).

I think a contest that occurrs within the work that takes fan submitted content would be a different trope, one that isn't trivia.

Right. Look at all the examples on the page. Every single one is "here's how something came to be in the work" not "here's how that material works within the work." It tells us about creative process outside the work which is one of the major categories of material that belongs in Trivia. I don't think the fact that the parent trope is not trivia really matters.

Adding a new potential candidate, Parody Retcon. It doesn't happen with the continuity of the work itself, it only refers to how the creator tries to defend or market their work after the work's popular reception. Sounds like Trivia to me.

Also, has anyone noticed the description of Trivia on this page?

"Trivia is for insignificant factoids about a work or its creation that cannot be determined from the work itself."

From Wikipedia: "A factoid is a questionable or spurious (unverified, false, or fabricated) statement presented as a fact, but without supporting evidence."

I believe "factoid" is being used in the sense of "little fact" (or "sound byte fact") here, which is its colloquial meaning. In other words, it's for trivial bits and pieces of (verifiable) facts, of the sort that you might find in a trivia book.

I feel like Cowboy BeBop at His Computer when a journalist writes an ill-researched article on a work should be under Trivia, and not go on the work's primary page.

If the journalist has his own page, it can go on his main page there, I suppose. But it doesn't make sense to me that people's reactions to the work going on the work's page itself.

Example: Journalist X writes an article about Game Y that's clearly wrong. Currently, the entry goes on Game Y's main page. It makes more sense for it to go on Game Y's Trivia page (and if the journalist has his on page, that page as well).

I feel like Just Train Wrong is not really part of a story, just a few railfans being nitpicky. Nothing wrong with that, it just doesn't belong on the main page. See the natter in Source Code. Can it be moved to Trivia?

edited 7th Nov '13 5:53:08 AM by reub2000

Should Christmas Rushed be a trivia page? I feel like it should.

• Cowboy BeBop at His Computer: I agree, that's Trivia.
• Just Train Wrong: I disagree. The writers are usually wrong for the sake of making the story easier to understand/flow, like any of the Artistic License tropes.
• Christmas Rushed: I agree. That's trivia.

@1006 - I think..... I think I have an objection to that descriptive line as well. Not with the "factoid" part, but with the "insignificant" part. That's a subjective word, isn't it?

Using All-Star Cast as an example, the use of good actors that are acclaimed can be a minor portion of a work, where the actors were chosen for quality of ability. But it can also be a major feature of a work, where actors are chosen because they're well-known, while the writing is more of an Excuse Plot, and the special effect budget is dedicated to explosions, making makeup and camera effects suffer. (A rather dramatic example, but well-meant)

I can see the trope being an "insignificant factoid" in the first, but a highly visibke aspect of the film in the second. Is trivia for "insignificant", or for "not presented in the work"? The two are not synonymous.

For example, The Expendables. The All-Star Cast is the entire draw of the movie.

But the fact that actors are famous is not within the movie.

But it isn't insignificant.

So suggest a different word. The point is that it's not essential to understanding the narrative structure of the work, which is what most tropes focus on.

Trivia is for facts and factoids about a work or its creation that cannot be determined from the work itself.

Actor IS the Title Character.

Definitely trivia.

Motion to transfer Exiled from Continuity to Trivia. Reason: It's an outside circumstance that a writer has to respond to/work around.

EDIT: Also, we can't take The Cast Showoff separate from its converse (Cast the Expert) or inverse (Irony as She Is Cast); either all 3 are trivia, none of them are, or somebody has a lot of explaining to do.

• The Cast Showoff: Hey, we've got a cast member who can do X. Let's incorporate his character doing X as a B-Plot.
• Cast the Expert: We need an X in our work. Why not get one straight up and teach him acting? It's cheaper (or so we think) than having an actor be taught how to be X.
• Irony as She Is Cast: The best way to show something being done poorly is to have someone who does it well do it poorly.

edited 7th Jan '14 9:17:53 PM by DonaldthePotholer

About All-Star Cast, note that a viewer can be entirely unaware of this if it's a foreign show, or from an earlier time period (if you're not a classic movies buff).

A new trope has recently been launched called Deliberate Flaw Retcon. It's listed as a trivia trope, and it also mentions that Parody Retcon is a subtrope. In this case, if Parody Retcon's super trope is listed as trivia, shouldn't Parody Retcon be as well?

This is already in the crowner, with 6 yeas and 1 nay.

I know, I just thought the above example might supersede how people were voting, or accelerate the process.

Calling All-Star Cast and Funny Character, Boring Actor.

I'm of two mind about Synthetic Voice Actor; as many of the examples show, it isn't something easy to tell from the work alone. So, adding it to the crowner for you guys to decide.