During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
I just noticed this but Mumm Ra from Thundercats 2011 is in Western Animation but the show aired on and was made by Cartoon Network meaning he should be in Cartoon Network instead.
edited 15th Dec '17 3:31:39 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, Steppenwolf was the second (at least) CM for Ciarán Hinds. He was Reiss in Lara Croft: Tomb Raider.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
ACW : please move Mumm Ra from Thundercats 2011 from Western Animation to Cartoon Network as the show aired on that channel.
EDIT: Also isn't the discussion on Xenoblade Chronicles 2 supposed to start now.
edited 15th Dec '17 5:02:09 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lizzid people!
That reminds me; shouldn't Captain Planet also be moved to CN? I seem to remember it airing on Cartoon Network.
It doesn't have to be at this point in time, it is today, but it'll probably take a while for discussion to get going.
Goku Black
I know that but Iv already made up my mind on how to vote and just need the discussion to start.
Also since we approved Stefano.
How about this picture :
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
We''ve grandfathered them in and putting them on the main page and collapsing them would be a pain in the ass, so we keep them. Still since Cartoon Network exists it means Mumm Ra will need to go there rather than western animation
edited 15th Dec '17 6:15:01 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Do we need some of those Western Animation subpages, or have they been around long enough that we should just leave them alone ie they are grandfathered?
I know we have Stephen King but that's because his works are in a Shared Universe.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I say keep them grandfathered. The other ones (besides Cartoon Network) are either franchises, or, as in the case of Marvel and DC, have enough works in their own universes (DCAU, Marvel Universe).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Thoughts on my pic of stefano
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Hey guys, it's my birthday today!
Happy Birthday
Happy Birthday.
Happy Birthday!
Watched The Last Jedi last night, it was really great and I’m looking forward to the discussion.
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Goku Black
Happy birthday. Wishing you many more and hope you have a good day.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@HamburgerTime: Happy Birthday. 
-blows confetti poppers everywhere-
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Hamburger Time HBD to you ;)
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Caesar
Happy Birthday, HT! Now you can get a free ticket to Last Jedi from one of your friends/family members! ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Alright, before my write-up post, let's discuss Xenoblade Chronicles 2.
Short summary? No one new counts, and we have to cut established CM Zanza from the first game.
Long summary?
The Big Bad Duumivrate is composed of Malos and Amalthus, two petty psychopaths who seek to wipe out all life for no reason other than misanthropy, and get up to a hellton more mass murder and torment.
However, neither of them count. Amalthus has the genuine, if generic, Freudian Excuse of seeing humans murder his non-human parents, and we see that several times throughout the game, he almost reconsidered his genocidal plans, until he continuously saw that humans really were (to him) just war mongering monsters needing to be wiped out. Though by the end he's devolved into a ranting lunatic about how god has "chosen" him to be a righteous cleanser of all impurities, he's still ultimately just driven by the despair of his parents' deaths, and even dies with seeing a vision of reuniting with them.
Malos, meanwhile, doesn't count for a simple factor. He's only as evil as he is because, due to a sort-of mental connection to Amalthus, Amalthus' despair and hate ooze into Malos and make HIM a misanthrope as well, meaning his agency is all jacked up. He also gets a somewhat Alas, Poor Villain death, so yeah.
Unlike the first game? No Mini Bosses or Minor Villains stack up in heinousness, and most other villains have some form of redeeming feature.
And now...for the dreaded revelation. Zanza, the Big Bad God of Evil from the first game? Needs to be cut ASAP.
Turns out, some years ago on an alternate Earth, a brilliant scientist named Klaus tried to save his dying world with a powerful machine. When the machine malfunctioned, it accidentally destroyed most of the planet, and so a devastated Klaus decided to create a new, alternate world where he could recreate life. In the process, though, he split himself up into two beings: The Architect, and Zanza. The former has all of Klaus' calmness, desire for peace, and love for creating. Two guesses as to what Zanza is made out of.
So yeah, Zanza no longer counts. Being literally made solely of a man's ambition, ruthlessness, and god complex kinda puts a strain on your Moral Agency. Damn shame, but it must be done.
Thoughts?
edited 15th Dec '17 7:08:24 AM by Ravok
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Goku Black
As the guy who was going to bring him up to be cut and having discussed with you and Scraggle. Cut him.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Zanza.
That hurt.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And this isn't a case like Loptr?
BTW, Mumm-Ra can be moved, but Zarm and Skumm stay. Show was originally on TBS.
Happy b-day HT.
edited 15th Dec '17 7:13:27 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Happy Birthday Hamburger Time
Unless there’s a moment in the games that shows that he’s still able to choose between good and evil, we should cut him. It’s a shame but it happens. Reminds me of how we had to remove Kil’Jaden, who was on the Warcraft CM page for almost 10 years, because of him suddenly feeling remorse after his defeat.
Since some people already have seen the new Star Wars: Do you think it’s better than the last one? I don’t want to go to the Star Wars threat because I’m afraid of spoilers.
Unfortunately, Ravok's right... axe Zanza.
Messenger from another dimension.
Cut Zanza.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Goku Black
So guys how about this picture:
Dang. I will find at least one picture of a CM though. That ill make sure.
edited 15th Dec '17 8:00:36 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Happy Birthday!
The picture of Stefano is too unclear to be used.
Zanza?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Omiraculous told me this and that stings.
As for Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow, keep Brainiac's deeds from that listed for the same reason we keep Age Of Apocalypse and Age Of Ultron's events for Apocalypse and Ultron respectively.
And let me say this now: Anything beyond "this movie was (good/great/awful). Discussion should be interesting. PM me for more details" WILL be reported to the mods. No mercy will be shown here. Also, I've not seen it yet, but for those who have, please monitor the YMMV page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts