Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Is there any specific order the traitors should go in? Maybe I'll just make it alphabetical by haunt?

to Manuel Roba.

to Manuel Roba.

Wait that mean this is the 6th entry in the Call Of Duty franchise, more than enough for the series to have its own page!

Yeah, that works.

edited 20th Oct '16 11:14:54 AM by Awesomekid42

I don't think so. There used to be a Call of Duty subpage, but it got cut because technically, there are only three CMs for Modern Warfare, and only two for Black Ops. Unless everyone wants to put the subpage back up?

I'm indifferent to it. Six is technically enough and if people want to create a sub-page that's fine. Just don't make a hassle over it.

@Awesomekid 42

So, how come none of the potential creatures who would act as the Big Bad within the house qualify, and only the traitors do so far?

edited 20th Oct '16 11:58:18 AM by kirbystarwarior

Re: Sato

He's an...interesting case. I remember watching that movie several years back, and I'd never hated a villain as much as him. For the longest time, I did think he was a CM.

However, now that I've thought it through...I don't think Sato counts. His actions are vile, but keep in mind that this was a time period where the Japanese military were oppressing the Chinese. As bad as it is, Sato's behavior isn't really out of place in the setting. So, to Sato, as much as I hate him.

I'm fine either way with a COD subpage. Might as well wait though and see if anybody from Infinite Warfare will count.

To Sato.

There probably are a few characters who aren't traitorous explorers who qualify for CM material, but none that I've seen so far. If the Big Bad wasn't an explorer, their villainy either didn't stand out enough to be a CM (The Witch, Death) had redeeming qualities (Death, some Maniac with a zombie family, The Mummy) seemed too insane to qualify (Some Serial Killer called Crimson Jack) or seemed too much to be a Generic Doomsday Villain (The Demon Lord) from the ones that I met.

edited 20th Oct '16 1:16:54 PM by Awesomekid42

Eric, bandit leader, manuel roba

edited 20th Oct '16 1:46:30 PM by Mediawatcher

Here my draft for César. I'll probably make a page for Sleep Tight later but not today.

• Sleep Tight: Believing to be born without the ability to be happy, concierge apartment César Manso only finds satisfaction in making everyone around him unhappy. While he easily upsets and turns his tenants against each other, Clara proves herself to be challenging. He decides to ruin her life for no reason. Every night, he hides under her bed, chloroforms her then rapes her before injecting irritants in her cosmetics and putting cockroaches eggs all over her place. During the day, he harass her with anonymous letters and later frames the cleaning lady's son for it. When Clara's boyfriend finds out, César kills him with a mirror shard and stages his death as a suicide. He also sadistically torments his dying mother by confiding his deeds and threatens a little girl who tries blackmail him. Finding happiness learning that Clara is pregnant with his baby, he sends her a letter taking pride in ruining her existence.

edited 20th Oct '16 2:03:07 PM by Silverblade2

Almost done with Savage (I got a lot done Tuesday; I finished work around 5 and pretty much went straight to a Styx that started at 7:30, so lots of free time). Expect (hopefully) Whittle's writeup this weekend.

Alright, so after looking over the facts and ultimately giving it some thought, I believe that Jack the Ripper from Assassin's Creed: Syndicate fits the bill.

Who is Jack the Ripper and what does he do?

Jack the Ripper (voiced by the awesome Alec Norman) is a former Assassin and the Big Bad of the Jack the Ripper DLC. Here, he is depicted as planning to take full control of the Assassins and turn it into a dominating force, intending to control the people through terror, fight the Templars head on and pretty much dismiss anyone who dies as mere collateral damage.

Jack witnessed his mother get killed right in front of him and is sent to Lambeth Asylum on Crawford Starrick's orders. Left insane by his mother's death and pretty badly damaged by the not so helpful treatment of the day, he was rescued from the Asylum and recruited into the Assassins by Jacob Frye who saw him as a son. Taking him to India, over a 20 year period, Jack was trained in normal Assassin behavior, as well as the use of fear tactics. However, he blamed Jacob for his mother's death and eventually began to feel that the Creed was weak due to the sickness, presumably of morality, and sought to take command of the Assassins himself and turn them into the giant political superpower that the Templars were, forcing the people to fear the Assassins.

Returning to London in 1888, Jack took command of Jacob's former gang the Rooks, and turned them against the Assassins, ordering them to hold journalists who went against him hostage, and kidnapping prostitutes to use as shields in the event anyone tried to stop him. He began to murder undercover Assassins disguised as prostitutes to draw Jacob out, severing one Assassin's ring finger to ensure the Brotherhood was not exposed until he had it under his command. He also wrote letters to the press, and then demanded that they publish his letters or he would kill their families, wanting not only for the world to know who he was, but for Jacob to come after him.

Eventually this plan works, and Jacob searches for Jack, who secretly follows Jacob, and then pursues him. Jacob loses Jack in a crowd, and straight up declares he will kill every last member to get to Jacob, and then proceeds to murder the nearest civilian to lure Jacob out. Jacob runs, and upon encountering the police, brutally impales one of them before fighting Jacob who manages to escape to his house. Jack attacks again, and takes advantage to mock his mentor, pointing out that while Jacob is the only person who knows who the Ripper is, but they cannot tell anyone, since it would destroy the Assassins. Jacob tries to make a dash for his gun, but jack catches him, and when Jacob insists that Jack can be fixed, he screams " I AM THE SOLUTION!" before he stabs Jacob, but thanks to Gory Discretion Shot, we don't know if Jacob is dead.

Jacob has sent for Evie who returns to find out what happened to Jacob. Eventually meeting up with undercover Assassin Nellie, Evie realises that the only thing that will cause Jack to show himself is if Lady Owens, Jack's right hand, is killed. Accomplishing this, Owens states that Jack would have given her a Fate Worse than Death, before revealing that Jack has been having journalists who will not publish his letters killed and their families murdered just to set an example, and in some instances for his own amusement. Evie escapes, but Jack then proceeds to murder all people in the mansion, throwing the blame on Evie, completely disregarding all the work Owens has done for him.

Evie eventually reaches the docks, rescues the prisoners and exposes Jack's brutal torture, imprisonment, and lesson stating facility, and calls the police. Jack, one step ahead of Evie, calls her "snivelling" and mocks her for thinking she can catch him. He then proceeds to murder all the witnesses and all the police officers there, and upon murdering the warden, mocks him by calling him his favorite, and happily tells the witnesses he will rip out their organs to send to their families, implying he does this to people who fail him, completely ignoring the fact that they served him loyally, even if they were disgusted, before burning all records and his guests personal effects, before fleeing the scene.

He then brutally murders Mary Anne Kelly, removing her organs, and Evie later discovers that Jack left a message for her after he killed Kelly saying it was a "gift" and threatens to kill others unless she does what he says telling her to return to the scenes of his first murders, indicating he did this not just to kill loyalists, but because he did it to infuriate Evie, in other words he did it For the Evulz and regards his actions as beautiful pieces of work. It is later revealed that he knew Evie would come and made sure Evie would find their rings, while leaving brutal messages at each murder site. Evie later finds out that every Assassin Jacob turned against Jack and his twisted version of the creed were murdered, essentially throwing away his companions lives and then setting up their murder scenes as hidden messages to add insult to injury, and killed Catherine Eddows to punish Jacob via They Died Because of You. We later find out that since Jacob didn't believe Jack, he decided to give him a taste of a Creed's failure as it failed his mother, which Jack regards as the only thing that amounted to murder. Evie finds the body of Jack's murdered mother, and then throws a fear bomb at her, causing her to wildly hallucinate and almost kill several innocent bystanders, something Jack clearly didn't care about, luring her to Lambeth Asylum.

Meanwhile, Jack himself arrives at Lambeth Asylum determined to remove any trace of his identity before facing Evie. He kills Nurse Whitney and Doctor Archer, his former tormentors, before murdering Director Bradford and burning all the records. Deciding he needs time to prepare for Evie's arrival, he lets all the violent criminals out, killing the entire staff and creating a final message for Evie, before retreating into the basement.

Evie arrives and after killing the inmates, deciphers Jack's message. Entering the basement she discovers Jacob, before Jack taunts her. Attempting to ambush her, Jack claims that he will rip all of the sickness out of London, proclaiming that under him the Assasins will rise from the shadows and he will rule, later stating he taught her brother a lesson. Realizing she wont win in a head on fight, Evie ambushes him twice, but upon initial defeat, proclaims the Ripper cannot die, and urges the surviving inmates to attack Evie. Evie proclaims that even though he blames Jacob for his mother's death, nothing justifies or excuses his crimes, claiming that Jacob was a surrogate father to Jack, stating that Jack betrayed his trust and sullied the Creed. Commanding that Evie bring out her monster by slaughtering the lambs, Jack engages in battle with Evie and is eventually brought down by his own brutual takedown. He briefly tells Evie that they are the same, but is disproven by Evie. Jacob is eventually revealed to be alive, and Evie requests that Inspector Abberline cover up Jack's identity to protect the Brotherhood. After that the story, and Jack's role in it is over.

Is he heinous by the standard of the story?

Indeed Jack is heinous by the standard of the story, given Syndicate is the most lighthearted of the franchise. Most of the villains of the main game are Well Intentioned Extremists and are motivated by greed, while Jack is an Ax-Crazy psychopath who is determined to take command of the Assassins, betrays his mentor, and is motivated by a desire for revenge, combined with It's All About Me along with The Unfettered, happily killing anyone who gets in his way, and it is made obvious in the final battle that he would not give a damn about any innocents who would die.

The only real person who comes close to Jack's level of heinousness would be Maxwell Roth, given that Roth casually dismisses killing children, and later murders people on stage just to kill Jacob. However Jack has crimes that are more greater than Roth's in that while Roth was a heinous gangster to begin with, Jack intentionally betrayed Jacob and the Assassins and later killed every last Assassin who refused to join him in a brutal act of Join or Die. He also took advantage to turn his murder sites into puzzle games and clearly enjoyed killing people, as he referred to his murders as works of art, and only saw his mother's death as murder. It is also obvious that while most of his actions are The Unfettered, he clearly does it also For the Evulz even if it is a secondary motivation. When he confronts his former mentor, he takes advantage to mock him by telling him he cant expose him without exposing the Assassins, and later happily kills his own henchmen without a care in the world, even saying he will serve their kidneys and send their organs back to their families, competly not caring if he winds up traumatizing their children, and later kills an innocent civilian just to lure Jacob out of the crowd. Admittedly, the people he kills in the asylum that remembered him are Asshole Victims, but he callously dismisses the rest of the staff as collaterall damage, and throws away the inmates during the final battle. All in all he easily surpasses Roth in terms of heinousness.

Freudian Excuse or any redeeming qualities?

He certainly has a sympathetic backstory, watching his mother get killed right in front of him, and then being sent to a mental institution where he suffered brutal abuse, but as Evie makes it clear, that does not justify anything that he does, so his excuse no longer counts.

As far as redeeming traits, none. He is just a sadistic Knight Templar, (no pun intended) combined with a good dose of It's All About Me and a brutal amount of He Who Fights Monsters. When he severed one Assassin's finger, he merely did it because the Assassins being exposed did not fit into his plans, so it was more of pragmatic villainy rather than him having any genuine standards, so as far as this one goes none.

Final thoughts?

Well I will be blunt, I think he is a definite version of a Complete Monster. He clearly commits crimes that are way heinous by the standards of the story of Syndicate. The fact he outshines Maxwell Roth is a pretty good indication of how evil he is. I would be lying if I said he didn't qualify.

Well that is it for Jack the Ripper. Please see if he qualifies, folks.

edited 20th Oct '16 3:44:44 PM by hopeshalllive

Heh, funny you posted that after I posted about Jack. Anyway, if he DOES count, a LOT of his tropes are wrong.

And where ACW may I ask you posted this?

Wasn't Jack discussed before and voted down on the basis of his love for his mother?

I meant another Ripper (Whittle).

Nope, I do not recall him being proposed. And it is made clear during the final battle, that nothing excuses his crimes, not even his love for his mother. So he is in my opinon

At ACW I see, different ripper.

edited 20th Oct '16 4:16:59 PM by hopeshalllive

To Jack. A couple of months ago, it was discussed how being justified or not isn't what matters. It's if the Freudian Excuse is valid. Thief King Bakura was cut despite being a cruel sadistic bastard who's backstory doesn't justify his actions at all, but he still had a valid Freudian Excuse and cared about his people. Watching your mother get killed before your eyes and going insane from it seems to be a valid excuse. The fact that other characters feel some sympathy towards him, and he seems to still care about his mother (if his character page is accurate) doesn't help the idea of him being a CM either.

edited 20th Oct '16 4:35:13 PM by Awesomekid42

Sato and Jack

Any more votes on the bandit leader?

It's not that his love for his mother excuses his crimes. They don't. It's whether it functions to give him a redeeming quality.

No to Jack.

Roba.

No on Jack. Nothing excuses or justifies his crimes in any extent, but the fact remains Jack still has a pretty blatant disqualifying factor nonetheless.