During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"Warriors was a kids series and normally wouldn't have examples..."
This argument in general needs to be permanently retired.
Klavice, I don't think I speak for only myself when I say I am roundly tired of you mentioning this blasted series
I've been meaning to ask if the characters from Warrior Cats are actual cats. I looked the character up once and found pictures of them as real cats on the Warrior Cats wiki.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
They most indeed are.
Klavice, refusing to effortpost the character doesn't mean you're straying off the issue of Single-Issue Wonk. If anything, it comes off as you not-so-subtly trying to nudge someone else into doing it for you - and I have no reason to believe that isn't your intention here.
Enough with the Warriors wonking. Honestly.
edited 29th Sep '16 4:41:45 PM by Scraggle
M Bison might be worth talking about though, considering that he was in charge of the kidnappings, and had all those children exposed to poison.
jjj
From my understanding, they really are cats.
Ok, I wouldn't say there's anything wrong in theory with effort-posting a character from Warriors, especially when there's three characters who are CM's in it already. It worries me when a troper seems annoyed just at the mention of a potential candidate in the series.
Still, bringing up a character and flat out saying how you're refusing to effort post him/her wouldn't contribute anything to this thread. If there's a potential candidate, just effort-post him. I agree with Scraggle that it feels like it's a nudge for somebody else to propose him. And maybe it's just me, but acting like you'd be on thin ice just for bringing up a potential candidate who hasn't been discussed before bothers me more than you bringing up another Warriors example. I understand that you've brought up Warriors several times and have annoyed people with it, but going "here's information for a potential candidate, but I'm not effort-posting it" isn't any better.
edited 29th Sep '16 4:56:36 PM by Awesomekid42
Hey guys, long time no speak. Just a reminder (and sorry if someone else has said this), but here are the following moratoria on upcoming works:
Azure Striker Gunvolt 2: September 13th
Luke Cage: September 14th
No discussions of either of those until those dates. (I'll almost certainly be done Luke Cage by then, but I'm not sure about ASG 2, unfortunately...)
edited 29th Sep '16 5:15:57 PM by speyeker
The Unknown Unknown
F.A.N.G. is 10-2-3 now. Anyone else? Speak now or forever hold your peace.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to F.A.N.G. and Arachnus
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Hoffman
While I really don't want to enable Klavice's passive-aggressive wonking, it actually does sound like this guy might at least be worth a discussion, if anyone else reads the series.
(I have to say, though, that his previous claims of improvement are seeming increasingly questionable).
edited 29th Sep '16 5:27:53 PM by nrjxll
I think I'll discuss Breath of the Wild Zelda instead. I'd be more than happy to reserve discussion and effortposts on a potential villain on it if it hasn't been reserved yet.
I'm going to try and reserve discussion for a few upcoming games. Like the next Star Fox game.
Don't worry about it. I'm done mentioning that series. But it seems whenever a game/show comes out that I'm interested in is announced, someone's already reserved discussion on it.
Could somebody link the discussion dates topic/sandbox here? I'm having trouble finding it.
I'd be more than happy to bring up a villain from a different series.
edited 29th Sep '16 5:42:38 PM by Klavice
If you don't know enough to effortpost it, you only need to mention once that you think the character may count, and just ask if anyone could give it an effortpost. And only once. Shoehorning it into your posts does not help.
And if you simply miss out on ones you can effortpost... it's not a big deal. This is a cleanup thread, not like it matters who effortposts who or who goes up in the long run.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
There's a link to it on the FAQ. And it's down in my sig.
I'm going to try and reserve discussion for a few upcoming games. Like the next Star Fox game.
Wait, there's an upcoming Star Fox game? Haven't heard anything about a new star fox game after Zero came out.
edited 29th Sep '16 5:49:27 PM by Awesomekid42
Yes, I am a nutjob. But I won't stretch the truth. At least let me TRY to redeem myself. If you guys really don't want me doing any more effortposts, please feel free to remove my name. But all I want to do is help.
edited 29th Sep '16 6:27:20 PM by Klavice
I'm fine with giving you a chance
Wild Child
Well that was kind of rude.
Anywho, yes to Archnus and FANG.
Why so serious?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@snakeky-man: Okay, there's a difference between letting someone know that what they're doing has been bugging some of the users, and being a full-on asshole about it and requesting that someone can't even do an effortpost just because you think the person isn't qualified to do it.
As I said earlier, that's why this discussion forum exists. For discussion. If someone disagrees on something or someone is inaccurate about information, then we will discuss it. That's the point.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
One more week till Magnificent Seven... *sigh*
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
@Demon Duck of Doom
As previously stated, numerous Leverage villains have released faulty products knowing the damage they would cause, from unsafe toys, to the drug in question. As for the heinous bar, one single-episode villain tried to wipe out the world's wheat supply with a blight.
edited 3rd Oct '16 11:01:20 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar
I used to watch Leverage, but I never realized how many plantery-level villains it had.
The Unknown Unknown
12-2-3 for F.A.N.G. I believe that's enough. Without further ado, the writeup.
- Hailing from the Nguuhao, F.A.N.G. is an assassin skilled in group’s Poison Hand, later becoming M. Bison’s second-in-command. Despite his eccentric style, his actions in Story Mode are played utterly seriously. Originator of Operation C.H.A.I.N.S., a plan to empower Bison and his Psycho Power through widespread fear and chaos, F.A.N.G. seeks to have it accomplished through any means necessary, even though he knows the world will become a hellscape afterwards. He kills a programmer, Rashid’s friend, by poisoning her so badly she melts, then sampling some of the remains. He later brags about the endeavor to Rashid in their fight. On a quest to recover the control keys to the Black Moons, he regularly threatens people with them like Laura’s brother, Sean. After the Black Moons are stopped, F.A.N.G. promises a Li-Fen he will melt her like Rashid’s friend unless she activates a fail-safe to reactivate them. Caring little for anyone else, including the Dolls he helped engineer, other than Bison, who he has a fanatic obsession with, F.A.N.G. tried his best to leave poison and blood in his wake during his tenure at Shadaloo.
Any changes to address before this goes to the draft page?
edited 29th Sep '16 8:06:02 PM by erazor0707
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
No to both FANG (for reasons involving genuine loyalty not twisted obsession to M Bison and a genuinely sad backstory) and Bison if he ever gets discussed. Bison is incredibly laughably evil to the point he's incredibly hard to take seriously and it's implied he's just batshit insane from all the experiments Shadaloo does. My Street Fighter knowledge isn't great but I know about Bison and his basic backstory.
In other news this new Warrior Cats villain (Darktail) is just begging to be proposed since he started a war among the Clans, viciously drove out SkyClan and caused several cats to die of illness because of said war. But I refuse to effortpost him as I promised I wouldn't propose any more examples from that series for fear of Single-Issue Wonk. Also to the gentleman who said Warriors was a kids series and normally wouldn't have examples it's arguably more violent and bloody than LOTR and Harry Potter combined to the point if a movie was ever made, it'd probably be rated 14A or R.
edited 29th Sep '16 3:56:51 PM by Klavice