During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Vargas and Breneka
Wild Child
Vargas.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
I'm leaning towards a no on Vargas as we literally only see him at the very end of the episode, and that's when he's on the ground bleeding possibly to death after his former victims take revenge on him.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
Vargas and Breneka
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
I also don't think Vargas measures up to the already-disqualified Billy Flynn who had triple-digit rapes.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I'm leaning towards ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on Vargas.
Breneka though. Seems like the 2000 AD comics aren't aware of subtlety with their villains.
.....Gun-wielding dinosaurs huh? Think I might buy this comic. 
edited 4th May '16 6:44:32 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
I have an effortpost for Wes Craven's not-very-good 2010 movie My Soul to Take:
Who is he?
The Riverton Ripper. Unsurprisingly, he’s a serial killer. But there’s a bit more to it than that.
First of all, I’m not entirely sure what the Ripper is- he could be a malevolent soul of a killer, or he could be a split personality of a man who had schizophrenia named Abel Plenkov. If it’s the latter, which most people seem to believe based on what I’ve read online, I’d normally consider it to be disqualifying, but this is kind of a special case. The Ripper is able to jump into a new host after the original is killed (if they actually are the original), so they act like a malevolent spirit completely separate from the man with schizophrenia more than a split personality.
In the movie, a paramedic mentions that in Haitian culture (I don’t know if this is true), people who supposedly have schizophrenia are believed to have multiple souls inside of them. It’s possible that Abel Plenkov was actually possessed by different souls, and I think that it’s left purposefully ambiguous. It’s also interesting that Abel was aware of the other personalities, but not of the Ripper, almost like the Ripper attached himself to Abel later on.
The nature of what the Ripper is is the only mitigating factor, but I personally think that he can be treated as a separate entity even if he was originally a split personality. He can take over a new host, and he sure isn’t a split personality of them.
What does he do?
16 years ago, the town of Riverton was plagued by the Riverton Ripper, a slasher serial killer who killed an unknown amount of people (we only see one murder). A man who had suffered from schizophrenia named Abel Plenkov discovers that he has been committing the murders when he finds the Ripper’s signature knife with the word “Vengeance” scratched into it. The Ripper speaks to him in his mind, and threatens to murder his family if Abel doesn’t stay out of his way and continue to let him kill. After telling his doctor about it, Abel finds that the Ripper has killed his pregnant wife. The Ripper then takes full control of Abel, and tries to kill Abel’s daughter, succeeds in killing Abel’s doctor, and tries to kill a paramedic and a police officer. Later in the ambulance, the Ripper slits a paramedic’s throat and causes the ambulance to crash, seemingly escaping.
16 years later, the Riverton Seven, the seven babies from the town who happened to be born on the day that the Ripper died/disappeared (namely Bug, Alex, Brandon, Brittany, Penelope, Jerome and Jay) perform an annual ritual meant to keep the Ripper from returning. They fail to complete the ritual and the Ripper returns.
Most of the rest of the movie has the Ripper killing members of the Riverton Seven and Bug looking more and more suspicious (meaning he’s obviously not the killer). Also, it turns out that Bug and his sister Leah were Abel’s children, Bug having survived in his mother’s womb.
Anyway, the Ripper murders Brandon, Brittany, Penelope, Jay and Jerome, along with a policeman and Bug’s loving foster mother, and attempts to kill Bug and Leah.
Alex, it turns out, was the one with the Ripper’s spirit, and after revealing himself, The Ripper explains that he was seeking vengeance on Abel’s other souls/personalities who also jumped into the other members of the Riverton Seven, and tries to make a deal with Bug to kill Leah and frame Jerome for the murders so they’ll be heroes. Bug naturally refuses and stabs Alex/The Ripper, and Alex dies as himself.
Also, earlier Alex had admitted to accidentally killing his abusive stepfather, so it’s not clear if that was the Ripper’s doing or not.
Freudian Excuse, Offscreen Villainy, Other Mitigating Factors?
No Freudian Excuse, plenty of onscreen murders.
I already gave my thoughts on the Ripper’s nature. I believe that he should be seen as a separate entity.
There’s also the question about slasher-movie villains of if they have enough personality. I think the Ripper does- he laughs, he swears, he has motive (albeit crazy), he seems to get a Freddy Krueger-esque thrill from killing, and he says lines like: “Fuck your fucking unborn child, now where’s your bitch?” and “They never should’ve cut you out of your dead mother”.
Conclusion:
He was already a serial killer even before the 10 successful murders we see onscreen, and given my thoughts on his nature and personality, I personally give him a .
Wild Child
Ripper.
Also, I found a Palpatine
◊, either for Monster.Star Wars or the image links. Thoughts?
edited 4th May '16 8:04:23 PM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?
Yay! Another slew of proposals! I love it when there's eight in one day!
to Carlos Malfeitor, Rolestra, Ianthe, Mireva, Pablo Vargas, Cinnibar Berneka, and the Riverton Ripper.
to Masul.
Carlos Malfeitor, Rolestra, Ianthe, Mireva, Pablo Vargas, Cinnibar Berneka, and the Riverton Ripper.
Masul
the Ripper
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Riverton Ripper.
HamburgerTime raises a rather concerning point for Vargas. I'm leaning to a on him. I will, however, the Ripper and Breneka. I wouldn't think it'd be possible to get much higher than Torquemada.
edited 4th May '16 9:35:42 PM by Scraggle
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- nrjxll: Point taken. I'm just not sure of another way,
- Ripper.
- Now, as to Vargas (who I think is 7-4 so far, including myself):
- HT: I'll grant you we rarely see him (my main concern), but we do see an attack at the beginning, and we get a read on his personality.
- As to comparisons to Billy Flynn (GOD I wish he didn't have that Pet the Dog moment): I know this is iffy territory, but Flynn had 12 times longer to work (1984-2010, vs. 2003-2004). Considering Vargas averaged ~7 rapes a year before being humiliated...also, by that standard, we could probably cut Cy Bradstone too, as he has only 6 victims (if not for the Facial Horror he inflicts on his victims).
edited 5th May '16 5:43:43 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Riverton Ripper.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
What did you think of my Tate write up?
I'm also wondering if people are being a bit to quick to dismiss Masu. I mean sure he never comes close to the others, but look what he has to work with. I mean he's not a Monarch, a noblewoman or a sorceress. He's just a egotistic thug who thinks he's a noble, he has pretty much nothing but himself for the majority of the story (likewise he doesn't appear to be remotely smart either), and he still murders five people (one of which is his father), brutally tortures a man to death then desecrates his corpse, is clearly a sociopath and ends up beating the one resource he is given to death for no reason other than he finds it funny.
Still just my opinion.
Wild Child
What did you think of the Palpatine image.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
It's alright. Not bad; I think I like the original image better though.
Wild Child
Re Masul: There's still a heinous standard. With the war and plagues and whatnot, the guy who kills a few people, even brutally, doesn't stand out enough in my opinion. Going to go no with him.
edited 5th May '16 7:39:07 AM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?
Ripper
Lizzid people!
for The Ripper...IF there's anything that confirms with no doubt that he's a separate being and not the result of a split presonality. You know, like Angel/Angelus.
BTW, this is the second CM evil spirit/possessor that we propose (the first one was Malfeitor)
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
First off, after seeing "Disco Inferno", the criminal, despite having the highest body count of the series, does NOT count (in my mind). A lot of small things that, while they may not have been disqualifying on their own, combine to be too much to keep him as a CM.
One last thing about Vargas: I don't think we saw too much of Charles Holcombe until the end either. Now, if you wanna say he's not heinous enough, fair enough (though he had a LOT less time than Flynn).
The current count so far: 6-3. More votes either way are probably needed. Original effortpost is here
.
edited 5th May '16 12:57:29 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I have a candidate: Mikey from Mikey.
Who is he and what does he do?
Mikey is a 9 year old Enfant Terrible who starts the movie by killing his entire adoptive family; his younger sister, his father, and his mother, recording his father's death and keeping the footage. He convinces the police a stranger killed his family, and he is sent to another foster family. He develops a crush on the 24 year old neighbor, Jessie, and kills her pet cat Rosie, placing the corpse by her boyfriend David's car to make it look like David accidentally ran it over. When Jessie forgives David after he gives her flowers, Mikey kills him by dropping a radio into a pool while David is in it. Once again, he films it. When Jessie becomes sucspicious of Mikey and warns his new adoptive mother, Mikey kills his mother. Mikey's teacher and principal arrive after becoming aware that Mikey is not acting like a normal child and may have killed his previous foster family. When they arrive, they see that Mikey has killed his new foster mother. Mikey kills his teacher and principal, shooting the principal with a crossbow, and slingshotting a marble into the teacher's forehead (not sure how that kills you). He goes to Jessie's house to eliminate all witnesses. He tries to kill Jessie with the crossbow, but fails. He goes back home, and when his foster father gets back, Mikey turns up the dials on the stove and throws a flaming bottle inside the house, blowing it up. He placed a child's skeleton from the school (the ones they have in the classrooms) in the house to fake his death. The film ends with him about to be adopted again after having shown up at an orphanage faking amnesia so he couldn't be connected to his previous life.
Heniousness?
Mikey has a total of 8 murders and one attempted murder, not to mention killing a cat. That's a pretty big rapsheet as far as evil children in horror films go. Considering his low resources, I'd say he stands out even in the horror genre.
Redeeming features or Freudian Excuse?
His real family was said to have been abusive, so now, if he ever feels that his current adoptive family isn't treating him well enough, he assumes they are no better than his real family and kills them. He killed his previous foster family because his mother scolded him for setting newspapers on fire (he had already done this once before) and slapped him, while his sister would not lie and take the blame for him. He kills his new foster family to cover his tracks after people become suscpicious of him. It's never explained just what his real family did to him, we only learned that they were abusive, and that that's why cps took him away from them.
As for redeeming features, he claims that he loves Jessie, but that is not true seeing as he tries to kill her. When he sees that his new adoptive family has containers of fish, he does come to like the ones in one container, telling the fish that he will always look after them. He becomes enraged when he learns that his family took the fish to an aquarium later in the film, but he may have seen his fish as posessions. When he's trying to kill his mother, he accidentally smashes the other tank holding fish (that were not taken to the aquarium) and does not bat an eye.
Conclusion?
If the Freudian Excuse and thing with the fish do not disqualify him, than I'd say he counts.
edited 5th May '16 2:10:15 PM by bobg
jjj
Wild Child
I recall that I once thought of proposing Mikey, but decided against it. Think I'm going to abstain for now until someone else votes.
Getting back to Landis for a moment, I'm basically just sort of wondering how exactly one formulates a heinousness standard for this sort of episodic Monster of the Week (no pun intended) crime show. I'm not sure just applying a "you must have killed at least this many people to qualify" bar is the right way to do it.