During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Prozen and Hiltz
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Gunther Prozen, Leck, and Hiltz.
to Leck.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Yeah, King has 8; don't know how many Barker has (Rawhead Rex and Pinhead come to mind); I found my list of Ennis's.
- EDIT: Looks like Barker also has the film versions of Dr. Dekker and Nix (Nightbreed and Lord of Illusions).
- Easy Wick.
- Leck. Yeesh.
- Hiltz.
- Prozen (that bit about having the soldiers killed pushes him into CM territory),
- Tallridge and Bordinay are tweaked; I should be able to effortpost Peter Clairmont today (the eps aired early this morning,so I DVRd them.
edited 30th Apr '16 4:28:23 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Messenger from another dimension.
King Leck
Prozen and Hittz
And definite Wick and King Leak. Those are two of the worst C Ms I have seen hear in a while.
Wild Child
Prozen and Hiltz.
Prozen and Hittz
I posted a suggestion of making the "no Torture Porn" rule it's own section of the FAQ, and the few people who commented on it approved. How do I get that posted?
Hiltz and Prozen.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Request it here.
Incidentally, I think Ivana Baiul should go to the "other" part of DC Animation, since Gen 13 was part of Wildstorm, which became part of DC. It's...odd.
edited 30th Apr '16 10:42:04 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Caesar
to Hiltz and Prozen
Also, I know it didn't specify it before, but Leck commits his atrocities because, to him, it's "art".
Like, Leck has a "vision" (Metaphorically) of a beautiful and artistic land, and it just happens to consist of rape, murder, and torture. And he says that those who interfere, even accidentally, are basically uncultured swine who deserve to be slaughtered. Oooooooookaaaaaay.....
edited 30th Apr '16 10:42:50 AM by Ravok
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Wut.
Also, found this on the YMMV page:
- What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?: Despite the 14+ rating, there are a couple of (nondescript) sex scenes in this novel. This has become a subject of controversy among Amazon reviewers.
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
And King Leck, of course. I think we have a new new champion for YA novels.
Caesar
I saw that, and was like "THAT'S what they're concerned about???"
I mean, Leck's crimes aren't overly saturated (Gory Discretion Shot novel version?), but even still, they are much more elaborated on than the sex scenes, and even still, the CONSENSUAL sex is what they complain about in a YA novel series that stars a mass murdering, mass raping, abusive, mind controlling psychopath?
Oy Vey.
edited 30th Apr '16 10:56:24 AM by Ravok
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Some moral guardians have skewed priorities.
I don't think it's necessary at this point, but King Leck. Undoubtedly one of the worst villains from his 'genre' that I've ever heard of.
Some??
edited 30th Apr '16 10:58:32 AM by nrjxll
I was trying to be nice.
Well, people complained that Harry Potter promoted witchcraft while ignoring that the first thing you learn about the villain is that he murdered two young parents and tried to kill their one-year-old baby. People complain about the sex and sexual violence in A Song of Ice and Fire and Game of Thrones a lot more than they complain about the brutal, graphic violence. It's a ridiculous Double Standard, but it's hardly uncommon.
Anyway, on to business:
to Malcolm Tallridge & John Bordinay, Wick ("Father of Colours" is a very eldritch sounding name), King Leck (I agree with the summation; he's basically Kilgrave with ambition and even more depravities), Gunther Prozen, and Hiltz.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Shere Khan (insufficiently heinous) and the Collector (insufficiently heinous compared to Brainiac or Imperiex).
edited 30th Apr '16 11:04:22 AM by DeCarta
Caesar
I mean, I fully support protecting your kids from too much violence and sex and such, but when they're considering consensual sex as something more harmful for their kids than a torturing rapist that is Nightmare Fuel incarnate, that's when I realize there's a problem.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
The Moral Guardians complained about the "No good or evil" quote from the first Harry Potter, either not knowing or not caring that the line in question was said by a child-murdering evil mastermind. 
Wild Child
Funny; my parents don't want me reading Harry Potter because "it's about witchcraft."
Yeah...
Why so serious?
I've found that, at least in the US, the rule of thumb Moral Guardians use is "Violence is A-OK. Anything related to sexuality or naughty language is not, regardless of context."
I also want to propose a villain who has a...unique spot in pop culture in that he's not really well known, but he's the inspiration for someone else.
The novel is a 1986 horror book called Light At The End concerning a punk who gets turned into a vampire and gets drunk off his own power. Our villain's name is Rudy Pasko.
Who Is He?
Well, in life, Rudy was an artist and immature punk. A spoiled, borderline sociopathic wastrel who leeches off people close to him with no real care for them. One night, he ends up in the subways, writing graffiti on the walls at around the time an ancient vampire is taking a little evening joyride. The vampire turns Rudy in a moment of whimsy after killing several people aboard the train.
Rudy...takes extraordinarily well to what he is and gets drunk off his new power, going on an absolute killing spree in New York. A combination of former friends and witnesses team up and realize what Ruy's become before setting off to hunt him down and kill him as the body count rises.
What's He Done?
Rudy begins killing people in the subway immediately. Not even a Horror Hunger type thing, as he really, really starts enjoying it. In fact, he even uses the blood to draw pictures on the wall when he gets artistically inspired by the murders. When he leaves the subway, he seduces a young woman, goes back to her place with her, sleeps with her and murders her, leaving her corpse for her roommate to find. Eventually he begins getting less and less cautious. At one point, when he's at a movie, he gets annoyed when two teenagers in front of him talk during it and quietly murders them in the crowded theater before leaving their bodies to be discovered later (he doesn't even feed on them).
Oh, and he also fixates on his former girlfriend and his former best friend and does all he can to make their lives hell. He views his former best friend Stephen as a potential servant, and also murders his ex's cat to let her know he's after her. When the good guys form a vampire hunting group, they also discover Rudy's murders have gotten more and more public with the police alerted. Rudy kills several of the group as well during the chases. One of them is implied to be in a particularly brutal and gory fashion when she learn to her misfortune crosses do nothing to vampires, and another he kills with the wooden stake the guy intended for him (Rudy actually intended to make it much slower, but when the guy realizes he's lost, he kicks Rudy between the legs to enrage him enough to kill him on the spot)
Oh, and when they find Rudy's apartment, it's a mess of corpses, with other feral vampires he's made feeding on the dead...and the bones of several children there that Rudy killed, used their blood to paint with and fed to rats.....finally, Rudy ends up cornered aboard a train when the sun rises and, trapped by the leader of the group Joseph, is exposed to sunlight and dies screaming.
Redeeming Qualities?
Oh dear god no. Even as a human he cared nothing for his 'friends.' Josalyn and he more or less hate eachother when the novel starts and Stephen...Rudy only uses the guy for money and support while stringing him along (knowing Stephen is attracted to him, it amuses the hell out of Rudy)...and as a vampire, Rudy even attempts to mind rape Stephen at one point, which is interrupted by...well, I'll get to that in a sec
Heinousness
Ok, Rudy clears the standard handily, BUT there is one guy to mention: the ancient vampire who turned him is an 800 year old,murderous monster who kills about 5 people in the prologue and turns Rudy on a lark. Now if we saw more of this guy, I'm pretty sure he'd disqualify Rudy utterly. He later reveals he's gone to France in the meantime and we see him kicking back at a cafe reminiscing cheerily of the time he once assisted Vlad the Impaler in his conquests and implicitly presided over horrible massacres...he also considers eating the cute waitress at the cafe after closing before he decides to check in on Rudy, and is a bit disappointed by how pathetic Rudy is. He interrupts the 'dream Rudy sends Stephen and just to remind Rudy how pathetic he is, mind rapes him in a rather...literal fashion (it kind of makes Rudy worse) and when Rudy is cornered, the Ancient mocks him for being such an idiot. He does spare the waitress because he just had too much fun putting rudy in his place.
Now, Rudy racks up a respectable body count, and he actually is a pathetic little bastard who's just interested in hurting people while all the Ancient's crimes, save the opening massacre are offscreen...and Rudy is a much weaker and younger vampire, so I think he gets props for the effort. If the ancient features more, though....
We do get a lot of insight to Rudy's head in general and he's really just a nasty, terrible person who likes hurting people. all in all, I think he passes with flying colors.
Oh, yeah, and he's a bleached blond punk vampire. Joss Whedon revealed Rudy was the inspiration for Spike from Buffy
Wild Child
Rudy.
