During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@ AWC, I feel like this would be a hard trope to do in WW 1, because WWI was like a war that almost seemed to be based on We Have Reserves. Commanding officers on both sides felt victory and the cause of the nation was more important then the troops, would send them into battle fields that were giant meat grinders, used massive shelling campaigns to destroy the enemy, used chemical warfare on the battle field and often had strategies that involved inflicting maximum causalities on the other side to win the war. Also frankly any solider fighting in the trenches in WW 1 has a good Freudian Excuse.
Now I just found out about a movie from 1957 called Pathsof Glory, which involves a rather cynical French general in WW 1 that is aiming for a promotion, orders a rather hopeless attack on a German position (though he was ordered by his superiors to launches this attack) and orders his troops to be shelled when they don't leave the trenches and when the attack fails, he swifts the blame to some of his troops and has them executed. Now I have not seen the film, I am just summarizing the plot from the wiki and tropes page. I could watch it and do an effort post on the general if people think such a character could count, he may have some redeeming qualities though (apparently he thinks killing 100 soliders is fine, but killing one officer. Though I still think its hard to stand out in terms of heinousness in WW 1.
edited 9th Feb '16 4:47:44 PM by Overlord
Wild Child
Any opinion on the Sabretooth/Gorgon images?
Why so serious?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Those images may work; is Sabertooth's from the 616 universe? I know being a Karma Houdini doesn't have any bearing on being a CM; I just hate Karma Houdinis. That's one of the things so great about Wolfsmund. Wolfram's an utter asshole, and gets an utterly appropriate Karmic Death. Same thing with Uncle Ezra (who JUST missed out on qualifying due to his low bodycount; he's despicable though).
edited 9th Feb '16 4:55:13 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Karma Houdini can be done well, I think. For example, the Thenardiers - they get away with it to show that society won't just magically get better because a few people got a happy ending. Which is a good message IMO.
I've seen it used way too often as a blatant LOOK HOW EDGY I AM ploy, though. It's a staple trope of made-in-somebedy's-basement horror movies in particular.
edited 9th Feb '16 5:02:57 PM by HamburgerTime
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
Wild Child
- According to comicvine, that is Earth-616 Sabretooth.
- Since I cannot bare to see Monster.Live Action TV without an image, I'd like to resolve that issue now and have everyone vote here to submit votes on which image they like best.
- What should we do about my suggested Frieza image?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
At least the Thenardiers got found out (and Mr. Thernardier <spelling> got socked in the jaw). Cross gets away with EVERYTHING. If 616, looks good. Enlarged Frieza
.
edited 9th Feb '16 5:05:32 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Wild Child
When I did the Frieza image, I took out the "revision" part and the stuff that came after that. It appeared larger then, at least on my screen.
Why so serious?
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Wikia shrinks images when directly linked for some reason; it's not anyone's fault but theirs.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
So does anyone think I should an effort post on General Mireau from Paths Of Glory?
Wild Child
If you want to effort-post, nobody's stopping you.
I am a bit torn on doing an effort post on him, likely due to my own opinions on WW 1 and how heinous it can be in general.
Wild Child
Well, we can't decide unless you explain who he is and his actions.
Kai is still a no for me. Nowhere near as heinous as Shen and does have redeeming qualities. But I'm eager to vote on Bill Cipher. Who was doing his effortpost anyway?
Regardless I can't vote yes on Shep because he keeps his word and has a sense of honour. And I know Watchmen is a crapsack world but are there any candidates from either the film or comics? I vaguely remember somebody proposing someone from it.
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Well as I explained before, I have not seen the movie yet (it does look good), I have to track it down and watch it. But as I mentioned before, from what i can glean from the plot overview from the tropes page , he sends his men on a suicide mission to take a German position, tries to have have the artillery canons shell them when they refuse to leave their trenches (the soldiers operating the canons refuse this order) and tries to have 100 of his men executed for cowardice when the attack fails (the French command is able to whittle that down to just 3 soldiers). I have to watch the movie to do an actual in depth post on him, but I wonder if that is enough to stand out in a WW 1 setting.
Oh well, maybe i will just watch the movie, see if he counts, despite my historical biases on WW 1 and then try to do an effort post on him.
edited 9th Feb '16 6:17:17 PM by Overlord
Wild Child
I'm doing Kai's effort post, though I admittedly don't think he make the cut.
Lizzid people!
Scraggle's doing the effort post on Bill. Though, ironically, I thought Ravok was going to do it, since he has the Bill Cipher Wheel as his avatar, so I thought it would make sense for him to do it.
edited 9th Feb '16 8:47:27 PM by AustinDR
May have mentioned this before, I can't recall, but how's this
for a page image for One Piece?
Lord of Hell
Seems good. Can you find a larger version of it though?
edited 9th Feb '16 7:26:19 PM by Awesomekid42
Wild Child
I got rid of the revision and what came after that, and it turned up bigger.
Why so serious?
Lord of Hell
I've been wondering, are there any villains from Dragon Ball GT that make the cut for CM? Only possibilities I can think of off the top of my head are Baby and Syn Shenron but it's been over a decade since I watched GT, so I don't know if they're heinous enough.
Baby is literally the only possible candidate.
Syn Shenron is Made of Evil and Baby has a Freudian Excuse.
A character that is worth keeping an eye on, it looks like Odin Quincannon has been cast in the Preacher TV series and it looks like he may be the Big Bad for the season:
Also was Odin Quincannon determined to be not heinious enough to be a CM in the comic book? Because I remember him being a corrupt, racist, depraved psychopath who tried to blow up a small town just to get even with Jesse Custer for humiliating him. But Preacher does have a very high heinious standard.
edited 9th Feb '16 8:02:38 PM by Overlord
He is nowhere near heinous enough.
And frankly, I'm not sure he's even serious enough
PD: Being a Karma Houdini isn't related to be a CM. Make you a biggest Hate Sink but not a CM.
PD 2: Quinella is called most by her title, Highest Administrator, or Administrator. The Reveal who she was a human being is late, also, i forgot mentioning some things.
Quinella forced Fizel and Linel into kill each others, she revive them after them die and repeat the cycle again and again, most of kids become crazy or just become imposible to save. Is even worse, right?.
When her Loyal servant, Chudelkin is apparently killed by Kirito and Alice, she just look at him and say who he "ruins the aesthetics" (Or something alone that line, is a while after i read Vol 13 and 14).
PD 3: I want delate/change that part of "In the context of the story, Suguo is as bad as SAO's villains get." Maybe someone can add one "Sugou is as bad who he can with his resources" but i just going to delete that line, sorry Ambar Sonofdeshar (The one who write his entry)
edited 9th Feb '16 5:00:04 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my country