During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Fusilli
Abstaining on Fusili as I think the Negative Continuity does hurt his heinousness but he's pretty damn bad.
edited 5th Jul '15 10:04:14 PM by HamburgerTime
Caesar
to Verto and Fusilli. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Tony, though it's not like he's actually being considered.
I just re watched The Great Fusilli, and I can say that there were more than 12 victims. There are two shots of the puppets, one at the bottom and one at the top. At the bottokm, we see the faces of four human looking puppets along with a rabbit and parrot puppet and the legs of others. At the top, we see 13 human looking puppets. Since we don't know if the legs we see at the bottom could belong to the puppets at the top, it's probably best to just go by the faces and say there were at least 17 human victims. Counting Eustice and Muriel and ignoring Negative Continuty, that makes 19 successful "kills" (they are lifeless as puppets and there is no way for them to turn back so that pretty much makes it death) along with an attempt to do it to Courage as well (and since he knows Courage is as sentient as a human, that's more or less the same as trying to do it to a human). He also is NOT played for laughs (there is a bit of Black Comedy at the end where Courage treats the puppets of Eustice and Muriel as if they were still alive, but Fusilli himself is played straight). I do believe he has the highest successful bodycount on the show, though Katz has a way higher attempted bodycount due to the episode Katz Under The Sea. Still, Katz appeared in five episodes while Fusilli only appeared in one. A hesitant .
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So Verto I guess can be added with next week's batch. Great Fusilli.
edited 6th Jul '15 2:58:09 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I'm abstaining on Fusilli for now, only because I haven't seen every single episode of Courage and don't know if there are any other villains (besides Katz) who are just as bad, or worse, than he is. But I'm leaning towards a .
I did rewatch the episode though, and I can say that it is definitely not Played for Laughs, and Fusilli is taken very seriously. It's amazing what kind of disturbing stuff I grew up watching back in the 90s.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
I usually don't vote but I am a big fan of Courage the Cowardly Dog but I think it's important for me to note in this case that there have been several villains that have been implied to be Serial Killers. Katz, Benton and his partner, Schwick (the guy from the episode "Courage in the Big Stinkin' City), and the Queen of the Black Puddle (who lured men in her castle along with giving them a necklace before she devoured them, and while Schwick's number of victims aren't made explicit, we see that the Queen has dozens upon dozens of bones near her castle all wearing the necklace).
I'm not saying Fusili doesn't qualify, i'm just pointing out his competition.
Lizzid people!
Benton and his partner had already been discussed, and they had that Vitriolic Best Buds vibe with them, and Benton actually becomes more comedic in his next appearance. I don't remember Schwick actually doing much, though, and the Queen of the Black Puddle was just portrayed as one of those monsters of the week that acts on her instinct.
edited 6th Jul '15 5:56:18 AM by AustinDR
I'm undecided on Fusili... I do recall him being one of the nastier (and completely serious) Monsters-of-the-Week, but as pointed out several other villains are pretty bad too. The Queen of the Black Puddle in particular boasts a visible graveyard of victims exceeding Fusili's. I also don't think the puppetry spell was that clear on the "oh no, they're completely inanimate and therefore effectively dead" matter. When Fusili himself was turned into one, he moved on his own accord without anyone operating him. Either way I'm not sure it makes much of a difference between an implied And I Must Scream fate and being unambiguously killed, but I do think it's primarily because the former is scarier, not necessarily more horrid, that he may seem worse than other villains.
^ Made of Evil monsters don't actually get a pass on contributing to the heinous standard. If it's a mindless animal that's one thing, but she's clearly sentient.
edited 6th Jul '15 12:12:28 PM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
I'll give a to Fusilli, because he seems like a good contender. While the Queen of the Black Puddle's body count exceeds his, she doesn't seem to be acting out of malice like Fusilli. Regardless of sentience, she seems to just be a predator stalking prey. Eustace is not a victim to her. He's food. Fusilli, on the other hand, does what he does not for his survival, or even financial gain (though he promises Eustace money, there's no indication that he actually makes any). He basically kills people so he can use their bodies for his amusement. Although, the exact nature of his puppets isn't quite clear or consistent. After he turns Eustace and Muriel into puppets, Muriel says one last line of dialogue apparently independently, and then they seem to become inanimate for the rest of the episode, never moving or speaking unless someone is making them do so. Fusilli's other puppets appear to be completely inanimate, as none of them are shown either moving or speaking, dependently or independently. Fusilli himself, however, appears to continue to live after he's turned into a puppet. He moves and speaks independently, and is last seen performing and taking a bow for his invisible audience. A theory that I had is that it takes some time before the victim becomes completely inanimate, though the time it takes appears to be inconsistent. Eustace and Muriel apparently become inanimate almost instantly, while Fusilli is shown to be able to speak and move for about 30 to 45 seconds, and the scene cuts away before he is shown becoming inanimate.
edited 6th Jul '15 7:24:47 AM by Pwnisher248
I noticed this just now, but has anyone made a writeup for Angelo from Jo Jo?
Also, we have five Monsters from a single series, which qualifies for a page of its own. We have Speedwagon's Born Evil quote but what would make a good page image?
I'd give a tentative to Fusilli. Him and Katz are definetly the darkest and meanest villains of the show and they're never Played for Laughs.
Was going to cut Tony but wanted to see if there were any objections...
A total has-been.
After reading up on everything said about the character and checking out the episode, I give Fusilli a .
Creepy name he's got, too. Fusilli - like fusillade. Indicating that his torment of his victims just won't stop, I guess?
edited 6th Jul '15 10:53:00 AM by ANewMan
I think it's a kind of pasta.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes it is.
41568: You ain't kidding. And then the are shows like Animaniacs that get all kinds of crap past the radar.
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
Batman: Arkham Knight has been out for three weeks now. When it comes time to discussing who would qualify I give an automatic to you know which two candidates. If any of you don't think they count I'm happy for you to try and convince me.
The Joker and Scarecrow of course, I'd put Riddler as a third but he wouldn't be considered heinous enough or dickish enough to qualify.
Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
Caesar
EDIT: Woops, sorry. Was under the impression it had been two weeks since Arkham Knight. My calendar's all messed up. Apologies, everyone.
edited 6th Jul '15 2:00:31 PM by Ravok
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
You guys can't wait one more day?
@Hodor: I have no objections to cutting Tony. He sounds like he's clearly not an example.
This is my first ever discussion post, so apologies in advance if I don't do this well. I just had a couple of points to make about monsters in the Transformers franchise.
The YMMV page for Transformers: War for Cybertron lists Megatron as a CM. While he'd probably qualify if the game were a standalone, the game is (ostensibly) part of the same continuity as Transformers: Prime, where he doesn't. So, I'm wondering, should the game be treated as it's own separate thing, with a discussion for Game!Megatron, or is it considered part of TFP?
Slightly different topic, but the quote for Transformers is from the IDW version of Megatron, who isn't listed for reasons that are pretty clear to anyone who knows Megatron's arc in that series. Maybe this quote from Beast Era Megatron work better?:
"Say goodbye to the universe, Maximals! Yes. The Autobots lose! Evil triumphs! And you... you no longer exist!" — Megatron, after trying to murder Optimus Prime and rewrite history.
Thanks. I'm going to cut it and link to this thread.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
to that quote. BTW, why doesn't IDW!Megatron count anyway?
Spoilers for Transformers IDW ahead:
In short, Megatron pulls a Heel–Face Turn, joins the Autobots, and lists the very quote topping the TF Monster page as one of his regrets.
I'm fine with the quote, but I think that it's too potholed.
