During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. " to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes, but that's not the issue here. We should have enough so someone understands the work, the character and why they count here.
I agree with lighty for the most part on this. Some entries are fine being over three hundred words cause the characters do enough to warrant it, while others don't. For example, on ACW's list, I think Gregor and Unalaq's entries are fine the way they are while I agree that Marlo and Moriarity probably warrant a trim. I just don't think "Over three hundred words" necessitates an automatic trim for the sake of trimming.
Nobody's argued otherwise.
That list is just the ones over 350. If it was only over 300 there would be MANY more . And Unalaq's probanly just on the edge. I'll remove him for now (what about that revised Patron one?). But it IS possible; compare Ramsay's entries:
edited 23rd May '15 1:32:20 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsI Just saw "The Strange Bottle". Here is what I feel I need to say
- The creature is called Evil Spirt (not genie) Of Darkness.
- In a flashback, we see the disasters the spirit caused. For Droughts we get an extremely dried up area. For floods we see a flood destroying a palace. For storms we get a giant storm cloud hanging over a city. For plagues we see 8 dead bodies, some of which look like they belong to children. For fires we see a city that has been let on fire.
- Alfred seems to be a child.
.
jjjAny thoughts on why he didn't try to eat Dolf as well?
But yeah, one-shots can count (Dick Hardly comes to mind.
Immortan Joe is a rock-solid entry based on the film alone (which you need to watch if you have any love for action movies, incidentally). His specific actions on-screen aren't that spectacular - the real horror comes from the world he's created (in particular, the plight of the War Boys and his wives), and all he needs to do is enough to convince you that he did all that, and that there is no context that will make any of it better. He succeeds.
Oh, and please, nobody suggest that he loves his wives and sons. He calls the former 'breeders' and keeps them in a fucking bank vault, and sends the latter out as fanatical, drug-addicted, and totally expendable shock troops.
Incidentally, the movie is surprisingly classy about all this (having the lady behind the Vagina Monologues on staff probably helped) - it's an R-rated movie about a serial rapist sex-slaver that gets its point across without including a single rape scene.
One other thing I should note - we may have a genuine candidate from an abridged series to put on our watchlists. Cell from DBZ Abridged is still in the early days of his arc, but succeeds in doing genuinely awful stuff that is played for horror rather than humour. The end of Episode 44, where he drinks a couple of DJs in their studio, is downright disturbing.
edited 23rd May '15 4:41:00 PM by Iaculus
What's precedent ever done for us?Disturbing? That was hilarious
Cell is having crazy sex banter with himself imitating a city he's about to attack before that. Ando one of his first lines is "WANNA SEE ME DRINK THIS GUY?!" Before about a minute later, cheerfully acknowledging he's creepy becaue "remember when I drank that guy?!"
He's way too funny thus far.
And I actually deleted Even Evil Has Loved Ones/standards/Family Values Villain from Joe's character page.He outright calls the women his property and treasures and is ready to murder one rather than let her be rescued.
I added a quote from To Kill The Mockingbird referring to Bob Ewell on the quote page. Apparently, there are a lot of ugly things in the world.
Okay, I have a possible example from Resident Evil: Revelations 2. Video games can be hard to do, since there are often so many little audiologs and stuff, so most of the information I got off the wiki, but I did also beat the game myself. Here it is:
Who is she? What has she done? Alex Wesker is the main villain of Resident Evil Revelations 2, and is behind pretty much everything in the game. Originally one of the 13 Wesker children, alongside Albert Wesker, who were abducted by Oswell E. Spencer to become one of a superior race of humans, she rose to a high position in the Umbrella corporation. She siphoned off resources from Spencer, leaving him to die, and set up base at Sushestvovanie Island in the Baltic Sea in the year 2000. She told the poverty-stricken locals that she was a businesswoman working for a pharmaceutical company, and using charisma and promises of employment, convinced many of them to work for her for a year in the re-opened mines. This was just a ploy to get test subjects, however, and the people who worked for her were subjected to long-term torturous experiments for her creation of the t-Phobos virus. The t-Phobos virus reacts to the stress level of its host. Men who are infected will mutate into the Afflicted (zombie-like mutants) when they experience a certain level of fear, while women will simply die a painful death. By 2010, Alex was running out of test subjects, and started infecting townspeople, telling them that it was a vaccine, and giving them bracelets that signified their level of fear. After infecting, torturing, experimenting on and/or killing virtually everyone on the island, including animals, she had her men assault the TerraSave (a human-rights organization) headquarters and abduct several members including Claire Redfield and Moira Burton, and a little girl named Natalia, and brought them to the island and infected them all except for Natalia. As the player goes through the island and sees all of the monsters and hanging bodies that Alex is directly responsible for, she taunts them and relishes in the fear she’s caused through their bracelets, and also attempts to lure the Afflicted to their position, as well as killing one of them by remotely sabotaging their helicopter. She also betrays her mole in TerraSave by infecting him with the very virus she promised him a sample of. It’s eventually revealed that Alex is dying from a disease, and intends to put a digital copy of her consciousness into Natalia’s body, and she kills herself after seemingly succeeding in doing so. However, she reappears as a mutated version of herself obsessed with killing Natalia 6 months later, having been infected with a version of the t-Phobos virus herself. She appears to retain her nature and intelligence, taunting Barry Burton over the apparent death of his daughter, Moira, 6 months previous. She also tries to strangle Natalia at one point, and in the end, naturally tries to kill all of the main characters.
Offscreen Villainy? Her experiments are offscreen, but all of the mutants that you encounter, as well as a whole bunch of hanging corpses can be attributed to her. She displays a great deal of sadism and obsession over other people's fear in her onscreen presence.
Any redeeming features or mitigating factors? None, she betrayed both Oswell and Neil, her TerraSave mole. She mentions Albert in this memo, but doesn't display any real care for him, just an understanding of how he felt when he killed Oswell. She also considered his last creation, the Uruboros virus, to be an abomination.
edited 23rd May '15 7:06:35 PM by Camberf
"She also considered his last creation, the Uruboros virus, to be an abomination."
jjjNo, she says it's an abomination in a note claiming that she'll "smother the island" with it.
I would like to vote , however, it seems her foster brother Albert, as well as Ms. Ashford, both attempted to zombify/ kill off most of the planet before ruling over whatever was left. She only does that to one measly island. Does she have less resources than them?
jjjDoing a write-up for Bertron.
- Alien mad scientist Bertron was obsessed with creating the so-called "ultimate lifeform". Every day he exposed a newly cloned child to the harsh environment of prehistoric Krypton; when the child died, Bertron would incorporate its memories into the next child, which would be exposed the following day. Bertron continued this process across the course of his lifetime, slaughtering, in his own words, "thousands upon thousands" of children in an effort to achieve the result he wanted. The creature he finally created was, unsurprisingly, completely insane, and sought to destroy everything it encountered, butchering all the life on ancient Krypton, including Bertron himself, before moving onto the rest of the galaxy. It's name was Doomsday, and in it, all of Bertron's malice and Lack of Empathy would live on, devastating all that it encountered.
How does that sound?
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
How many votes are usually needed to make the write up happen?
Like I said before, if Geiger doesn't count because he let them evacuate the passengers, neither does Payne since he let them try to get Sam off so he could be treated for his wounds.
edited 23rd May '15 9:50:10 PM by futuremoviewriter
If Geiger didn't do it for altruistic reasons, then...
Would Bertron go with the Post Crisis group?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsCut the extra apostrophe out of "its" in the last sentence. Otherwise, it's fine.
- Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey: Bertron, an alien Mad Scientist, was obsessed with creating the so-called "ultimate lifeform." Every day he exposed a newly cloned child to the harsh environment of prehistoric Krypton; when the child died, Bertron would incorporate its memories into the next child, which would be exposed the following day. Bertron continued this process across the course of his lifetime, slaughtering, in his own words, "thousands upon thousands" of children in an effort to achieve the result he wanted. The creature he finally created was, unsurprisingly, completely insane, and sought to destroy everything it encountered, butchering all the life on ancient Krypton, including Bertron himself, before moving onto the rest of the galaxy. Its name was Doomsday, and in it, all of Bertron's malice and Lack of Empathy would live on, devastating all that it encountered.
Have we considered Frank Slater from D - Tox and Terry Hawkins from Last House On Dead Street as keepers ? BTW for Delmar
edited 24th May '15 4:58:13 AM by ST89
You mentioned Slater here and Hawkins here, and it looks like both got at least 5 votes (not including your own), so they both probably just need writeups.
edited 24th May '15 6:15:16 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsI counted votes for Delmar and Qualen.
Delmar: St89 (post 39808), emperors, Tyk5919 (post 39674), Very Melon (post 39680), Overlord (post 39714), Irene (post 39813)
Delmar: 0
Qualen: St89
Qualen: Tyk5919 (post 39674), Very Melon (post 39680), Overlord (post 39714)
On-the-fence: emperors
So Delmar is an easy keep now; we have 5 votes. For Qualen, we still need to discuss him more in-depth.
Edit: Thank you. I don't know it it is illegal or not. I don't know much about Megashare.
edited 24th May '15 8:15:48 AM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!That is an official place to watch the movie, right? Cause we can't link to sites that illegally upload stuff here. Just want to give you a heads up right here and now so you can edit your post. That, and I don't want it thumped due to rules breaking when you clearly have more important information than a link.
Edit: I doubt Megashare is an official site. Crunchyroll works, though.
edited 24th May '15 7:55:53 AM by Irene
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.What are your votes of Qualen and Delmar?
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
This. Say it with me now: entries should not be full summaries of the work.