Edit banned/Suspended - would like to edit again.

After all, I am still trying to figure out how this system works.

So again, am I okay to post again in your eyes? I promise to not act like such an obsessive jerk again, and if I do, you can take away all of my privileges.

Fighteer

alright fair enough, a consistent pattern of posts in the help with english thread.

thank you.

at least I now know I'm on the right track.

Oh, I didn't see the "Add Post" button before so I'm sorry if I that I sent a PM message.

Anyway, I believe I was suspended for "Edit Wars" although I didn't even want to get into them and I had provided reasons of why I thought my examples fit the trope even in the YMMV section only for them to be rudely deleted when changing or moving them to the correct section would have been much more helpful and less rude (It took a lot of time for me to make that edit, especially since my computer doesn't respond very fast or well to the edit pages). And when I changed the edit to fit the trope (even provided quotes directly from the trope main page in the "Edit reason" section), it was still deleted and I was suspended. Given that, these past two days have been the most I've ever edited (when more egregious rule breaking has been left up for months), I feel extremely hurt that I was suspended over such a little thing.

I especially feel this way since the "thumps" provided often themselves had many spelling and grammar errors and were often quite rude. Tropers may be "below" Mods but that is no excuse for Mods to be rude or speak to us as if we're "stupid." Explaining things to us respectfully and politely what we don't understand will probably make the offending edits stop and will avoid trolling/edit wars/ etc. rather than deleting entire edits a Mod might not agree with.

Quite a few Mods even violate their own rules and rudely talk down to tropers. For example, in the "Word Cruft" page: Mind-boggling verbal tics:..."Until a cure can be found, the best that can be hoped is that these people are tracked down and sent to the Troper Institution For Re-Education Using Raspberry Jam And Live Marmosets." And Subverted as verbal chaff: "...see above re..marmosets." (If the Mod already mentioned it in the example above, why feel the need to mention it again and thus not only come across as rude but also violate your own trope [Hedge Trimmer / Word Gruft]) "How Did We Miss: "...So Yeah (dead link BTW) onto their examples like ugly verbal warts." Was this last part really necessary? And Mods are trying to tell us not to be rude and keep things simple? ...

So yeah indeed...I just think that if it's not cool for us average tropers to break the rules/guidelines, the Mods should be held to even higher standards and not to talk down to us in their tropes/examples/whatever just because we might not understand something or commit spelling and grammar errors themselves. Otherwise, it could come across as hypocritical to the rest of us.

So please let me know if this was the reason I was suspended and what I can do to fix it. (I already read the What To Do If You're Suspended Page.").

@Fighteer

Ok, I will try to respond as civilly as I can to this. Contrary to your presumption, I did see that the thump provided was for "In Universe Examples Only" and I re-added it to the YMMV page but provided a valid reason. Namely that, something cannot be "in universe" for Adaptation Decay when the characters in question are not the original characters of that franchise. Here's the quote/definition from Adaptation Decay's own main trope page: The gradual distortion or even disintegration of a world and its characters during its odyssey from original source material to movie to TV movie then to television series then to video game and finally to licensed derivative work." Since Final Fantasy characters and Classic Disney Shorts / Disney Animated Canon characters are NOT original KH characters, I don't see how that trope didn't fit or how it could possibly be "in universe" when the whole purpose of Adaptation Decay is that it's a trope for 'the adaptation of an original character. In fact, if you read my original comment, you'd know that the reason why I did re-add it is because a few of the "thumps" I received were rude. And no, all the "thump" said (at least before I was suspended) was "In Universe Examples Only." It didn't state that I needed one of the more specific subtrope (and the fact that this wasn't elaborated on was part of my frustration).

The amount of time I spent on it might be "utterly irrelevant" to you, but not for me. (Though I often note how frequently Mods complain about all the time they have to spend on editing or fixing someone else's edits and no one has told them the time they spent on their work is "utterly irrelevant." Why is it so wrong to ask for the same consideration without the snark?) Not to mention that a whole-scale deletion of someone else's hard work instead of moving or changing it can be constituted as rudeness.

And again I did read the What To Do If You'reSuspended page. The reason I made those "accusatory" claims was not to be hostile (And while I genuinely am sorry it came across that way, I ask you to note that I did not cuss or say anything disrespectful to anyone) but rather to help Mods understand and perhaps someday better relate to the average troper and a way to discuss my frustration on how some Mods treat us average tropers. How can you gain or expect respect from us if you guys already post and say things that comes across as looking down on us or try to call us out on our "rudeness" when a few Mods act just as bad?

I firmly disagree. I did not cuss or attack anyone and simply explained my behavior and why I was confused that such a small matter led to my suspension. As well as ask the Mods to keep an open mind and try to relate to us tropers better. How was it in any way, not "polite?" The suspension notice I received said that this "wasn't a punishment" or that it wasn't intended to "make a person feel bad" but was instead a way of saying "Come, talk to us." And I posted an explanation and requests (that the Mods understand our side of the issue instead of just deleting tropes left and right and yet providing their own "witty" yet sometimes disrespectful or grammatically incorrect tropes). So...was the whole "not a punishment" thing and we don't "want groveling" a lie or was it truly meant?

"We respond much better to polite appeals than accusatory tone" So you're withholding my editing privileges because of my accusatory tone even when I didn't curse and said nothing to attack anyone? That seems to be an abuse of power. I've looked at some of the previous posts on this thread and I can tell that quite a few of the Mods have done such a thing in the past just because they don't agree or claimed that a person was "disrespectful" even when they themselves weren't much better.

"If it is your intention to Rage Quit or Suicide by Cop on us, you're well on your way." Why are you presuming I want to Rage Quit or Suicide by Cop? I would like my editing privileges back especially since the Adaptation Decay was not only in YMMV but couldn't by definition have been "in universe" since KH Final Fantasy and Animated Disney Canon characters are adaptations of the originals. (How was that wrong?) But at the same time, I'm not going to grovel or allow myself to be disrespected to get them back. And as a Mod you yourself shouldn't stoop to the level of the same snark and rudeness you try to call me out on. It just proves my other original point on Mods trying to police or school the rest of us tropers when they're guilty of more or less the same things. : /

I see and I want to thank you for acting more civilly to me this time and genuinely apologize if I came across as offensive before. I truly didn't mean to be.

Anyway, for future reference can you please tell me what would the alternative for Adaptation Decay have been in that case? The other "Real Life Examples" don't qualify. At least not from what I could tell.

All I originally wanted was just to alert any possible readers about the differences between the Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy and Disney Animated Canon especially in terms of characterizations, especially since hardcore KH fans might not always be aware of the different characterizations of the original characters of both the Final Fantasy and Disney Animated Canon franchises and vice versa. What trope should I have used then if not that one and where should it have gone if not in the "YMMV" page? The "Discussions" page? I'm genuine curious since unless it's a related page on that trope's main page, finding an alternative is difficult and in this way I can learn from my mistake and move on.

Thank you for any help you can provide.

edited 1st May '15 8:09:14 PM by ThePaganSun

Is it alright if I could edit again? It's been refreshing to spend a whole year and a third of one not doing it.

Hey guys. It's been about a week since I heard anything.

Just checking in.

Since I'm still forum-banned (so I can't access the proper thread) and sending messages to the administration seems to do nothing, I'll just say it right here: there's a hideous bug with the new site format - when you're editing a page and you press Page Down, it causes the whole viewpoint to shift near-irreversibly over to the right each time you press it. The only way to even reverse it is to spam Page Up until it goes back to normal, and that is a hideously lazy 'fix'. Please look into it.

Unable to duplicate bug.

The charges that are still against me as far as I know are the snarkiness and not demonstrating knowledge of what makes a trope.

For my past few entries on this thread I've tried to be as gracious and polite as possible, and since my editing privileges have been restored you'll see I've not been involved in any controversy or rudeness.

My track record of tropes launched on my troper page I believed with speak for itself on my trope knowledge. Most tropes are storytelling conventions and patterns that appear in various works and art forms. There are also tropes that are purely aesthetic, tropes that apply to or are motivated by in universe actions, and real world development reasons and pages devoted to Audience Reactions.

Tropes should be recognizable regardless of where they appear, which is why the YKTTW requires you to have at least 3 solid examples, and three hats from other users prior to launching. As far as this wiki goes it generally helps it tropes are distinct, since having too much overlap with another leads or too broad a description leads to muddling and misuse. That said there are Super, Sub, and Sister trope designations that can help define the lines between tropes that cover similar ideas.

As long as the basic requirements are met (serving a specific narrative function or acting as shorthand) tropes can't be said to be too narrow or too broad. Though small tropes may not thrive on Wiki Magic, and large ones may be deemed better off as Tropes in Aggregate or exampleless Supertropes.

Tropes Are Flexible, and fluid and can change over time. Changes to popular tropes include the Five-Man Band which was originally conceived as The Hero, The Lancer, The Big Guy, The Smart Guy, and The Chick. However after I wrote and launched The Leader fasteddie himself pushed to replace The Hero with The Leader. Similarly I was involved in the Action Girl clean up thread that determined the trope should be as broad a super trope as possible, to accommodate for all its preexisting subtropes, and saw the removal of a lot of its extra connotations. The last major clean up was a part of what the reorganizing of Competitive Balance to be about pairs of foils rather than a specific layout of specific stats. This lead to the removal of the stat diagrams that used to be trope images on the major ones, and the new way the tropes are listed and used on the current page, up until I was in a dispute with a user that was pushing for strict adherence to the older system ultimately leading to this ban.

All that said, prior to my ban I was very active in the YKTTW, not only launching afew tropes of my own, but helping define and clarify tropes by other users. As far as naming goes I typically suggest names that hit the clever angle while debates are going back and forth, just to keep the wiki creative when it sometimes becomes pedantic.

Yes I have been very opinionated, but I respect debate and have never bullied anyone. I've only been snarky when the debates go off topic or people start attacking me as a user instead of my arguments. I'm not a sore loser, I just don't like to entertain poor negotiation skills. However as I've said before and will say again, I apologize for any and all rudeness and misunderstandings, and promise to be even more patient in the future.

I would like for someone to engage with my responses, to let me know what you are looking for and how I can better appeal.

edited 3rd May '15 11:57:58 AM by acrobox

I would like to know why I was suspended.

edited 3rd May '15 2:18:28 PM by Kingbacon

I am not a "sock" of tropes of tv.

I swear.