Name discussion: Gainax Ending

I dunno if Gainax Ending is as sticky as One-Winged Angel. Demote it to redirect.

There may be eleventy kajillion billion inbound links to Gainax Ending... but if they're all from one insular and impenetrable subculture, is it really all that great for TV Tropes as a whole?

...

The problem is that an awful lot of the anime-related stuff here is written strictly for the already-initiated. And in other cases, trope descriptions are written as if they're anime-only when, in fact, they aren't, or at least aren't necessarily.

Not having any familiarity with anything even remotely related to Anime & Manga, I could get behind a lot of what you're saying here (Most bizarre, Delinquents is written up almost exclusively as an Anime Character Type—it's even a part of that index—even though both the title and the actual trope being described have a much broader scope covering all media).

However, in the defense of Gainax Ending (and I have several personal problems with this name, especially when considering the existence of Gainaxing), I will say that Anime & Manga examples are in no way DOMINATING the trope page; they don't even make up a majority of all the examples, and the page generally collects a well-rounded assortment of wicks from different media.

In other words, Gainax Ending doesn't appear to be anywhere near as anime-centric as something like Delinquents, apart from having a name that requires additional explanation and clarification for the uninitiated (and maybe even for some of those who've already been converted, as well).

edited 27th Dec '10 6:28:27 PM by SeanMurrayI

As has been said earlier in this thread, Gainax Ending is an extraordinarily well-performing trope. It outperforms the vast majority of articles across the entire site.

There has been no evidence brought forward that this title is causing any problems. It would be imprudent to rename a trope with numbers like this without significant evidence to show that such a change is required.

This is the one part about trope naming that bothers me: it's possible for a horrible trope name to stick around simply because it either flies under the radar long enough or there's enough of a particular subset of tropers who happen to like it enough to ignore all the reasons why it's terrible. Tyranny of the minority indeed...

It's not even just extremely popular, but it's as popular as it could possiby get:

• Gainax Ending
  • Wicks: 768
  • Inbounds: 8,267

• Bittersweet Ending
  • Wicks: 1732
  • Inbounds: 547

• Downer Ending
  • Wicks:2,560
  • Inbounds:2,198

• Happy Ending
  • Wicks:252
  • Inbounds:33

• Earn Your Happy Ending
  • Wicks:919
  • Inbounds:2,181

• Esoteric Happy Ending
  • Wicks:102
  • Inbounds:317

Compared to the other ending tropes, that have similar basic purposes, Gainax Ending has a moderate amount of wicks (that is always limited by the number of times the trope was used), and an outstanding amount of inbounds.

It's safe to assume that it isn't simply just "not that broken", but actually leads more people to the wiki than a generic title like WTF Ending or Mind Screw Finale would.

edited 28th Dec '10 4:20:42 AM by EternalSeptember

You may feel that it's a horrible name, but the numbers disagree. You don't get the kind of numbers Gainax Ending gets by just flying under the radar. We have articles that only pull in a hanful of inbounds a month, and languish with only a few wicks.

Gainax Ending is a part of a minority... that minority being "the most successful articles in the entirety of the TV Tropes Wiki". That's the kind of minority we should be paying attention to.

edit: After reviewing the rewrite by Deboss, the trope description is now a good deal clearer. Good job!

edited 28th Dec '10 4:39:40 AM by Meeble

It's not a very good name, but at least it's clear as to what sort of thing it's about (the word "ending" is in the title). As far as title train wrecks I've definitely seen worse.

I suppose the whole point of what we do here is to weigh our options realistically, not bang our head against the wall. If a title is performing so extraordinarily well and just suffers from a mild case of "you need to have it explained to you once before it makes sense", it should probably stay.

The overlap with "Gainaxing" is an issue, though. That's just confusing our readers more than we need to, not to mention it doesn't say in the title what sort of thing it's about. We should probably do something about it.

edited 28th Dec '10 5:47:05 AM by TripleElation

It's still a horrible name, and I think everybody's just ignoring the aspect of whether a name for a general-purpose trope "works" extremely well for one subculture, but not at all for those outside it.

But... that being said, I think Deboss' rewrite helps a great deal. Now, you can at least figure out what the trope is about after reading a couple of paragraphs, instead of having to piece together a working theory of what the trope might be about via deductive reasoning.

This is the point I've been trying to make. There may be eleventy kajillion billion inbound links to Gainax Ending... but if they're all from one insular and impenetrable subculture, is it really all that great for TV Tropes as a whole?

Long answer: What is "good for T Vtropes"? If we get many visitors? If we get many edits in every medium?

Because Gainax Ending provides both of these. According to a quick character count, the Earn Your Happy Ending page's Anime & Manga folder's size is about 16% of the whole page's, and for Gainax Ending, this rate is 18%. Practically the same. Maybe you could say that all the Gainax Ending page editors, who added the western media examples are also anime fans, so non-anime fans are excluded, but again, why does it matter?

You claim that "this isn't an anime people vs. non-anime people fight," but if they serve the same function, what other reason could you have for claiming that a title that brings us 8 thousand visitors, is worse than one that brings 2 thousand?

edited 28th Dec '10 8:40:14 AM by EternalSeptember

According to a quick character count, the Earn Your Happy Ending page's Anime & Manga folder's size is about 16% of the whole page's, and for Gainax Ending, this rate is 18%. Practically the same.

OK, that is a convincing argument. I hadn't actually looked at the page from that angle yet, but it's hard to argue with.

Still not a good name, and not one that would or should ever fly for a newly-created trope, but I now have to concede that it does, in fact, "work."

BTW, the distinction between Gainax Ending and Trippy Finale Syndrome looks like such a fine one as to not be worth bothering with. Should they be merged?

Nice work, Deboss. The gist of the trope is much clearer to me now from the revision.

I'm thinking of going back in and deleting some of the later paragraphs. I don't think a "this is why it got this name" paragraph is bad, but a brief history of Gainax isn't necessary.

"The trope is named after Studio Gainax, which has a reputation for producing works with these endings."

Something like what I just wrote right there is all the mention Studio Gainax needs on the page.

(Agree, and also, recommend replacing "these endings" with "out-of-left-field endings" or whatever, something more explicitly descriptive, so the sentence could stand alone.)

A more detailed explanation probably wouldn't be out of place on the Studio Gainax page itself, though. It is a bit of an oddity, one that provokes curiosity on my part, at least - a whole studio known for a particular ending trope?

It's the recursive aspect of the old description that was particularly maddening: "A Gainax Ending is one of those endings... oh, come on, you know, endings like the ones Studio Gainax always has!"

edited 28th Dec '10 3:30:24 PM by suedenim

Well... Stephen Spielberg is known for making movies with a certain kind of ending too :P But yeah, is that right?

Well, part of this is that they are aware of it themselves, so they are trying to top their own weirdness.

For example the suddenly renewed interest in this thread was probably the result of the recent ending of Panty And Stocking With Garterbelt, (the first new Gainax IP in years), to witch the entire Internet reacted with ten minutes suffocating, screaming, and shouting, followed by an unified sigh of "OF COURSE we should have seen it coming!"

Also them adding references to their past Endings in this most current one.

Agreed on Deboss and Sean Murray's suggestions.

Trimmed again.

I think that looks about as good as it's going to get.

You know, any work on Gainax Ending is bound to feel a bit crazy / lost at the end

Um, have we checked the wicks for misuse? If the use is mostly correct, that confirms the name has caught on well. If there is a lot of misuse, then something needs to be done. We've seen in the past that misuse trumps even thousands of wicks, although I don't think this is misused to the point of cutting.

Yep, around page 2.