the Retromancer
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Difference from Dead Guy on Display?
Voiced ideas so far:
- The trope is fine as is, but the "dies in this manner" examples need cleaning and others may fit other tropes better.
- Being impaled by something thick, and not just a spear or other thin weapon.
- Being impaled by the weapon thoroughly, maybe even left in the body, and not just being stabbed.
- Require unconventional weapons or falling on sharp parts of the scenery.
- Require being pinned or suspended above ground.
Hi
Good point (so to speak). I was mainly trying to justify the "with extreme prejudice" part, although that would likely fall into The Same, but More Specific.
Edited by Willbyr on Feb 16th 2022 at 11:53:25 AM
x4 I quickly went through the ZCE and "Normal" folders and believe these are correct usage.
First paragraph of Impaled with Extreme Prejudice, emphasis mine:
- Characters.Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann Main Characters: Thymilph rams his Alkai Blade through Guren's armor plating, goring Kamina extremely deep into the left side of his chest and even heart. This injury causes so much blood loss and internal damage, it turns fatal. By far the series' most divine Tearjerker. Not that it stops him from avenging his own death.
23
- Characters.Preacher 2016 New Orleans: Jesse finally kills him by stabbing him through one of Pat's previous victims.
37
- Film.Zack Snyders Justice League: The scene of Doomsday impaling Superman as himself is impaled with the Kryptonite spear is featured again from different angles in slow-motion as Superman's dying screams awaken a Mother box on the other side of the world.
2
- Film.We Are Still Here: One of the townsfolk is stabbed in the neck by a cluster of knives. Ouch.
3
- Film.Charlies Angels 2019: Hodak dies after Jane throws him over a balcony and he lands on the sharp end of an ice sculpture.
5-6
- Film.The Force Awakens: Finn runs a stormtrooper through a lightsaber; he seems to have misjudged how easy to stab it is with one and it stops to the hilt.
- Film.The Force Awakens: The fate of Han Solo, at the hands of Kylo Ren (his own son) no less. (ZCE in its current state but wasn't sorted there)
9
- Film: Subverted in The Princess Bride: when Inigo Montoya has his father's murderer at his mercy, he actually demands the villain try tempting him out of revenge:
Inigo: Offer me money!Rugen: Yes.Inigo: Power too, promise me that!Rugen: All that I have, and more. Please...Inigo: Offer me everything I ask for.Rugen: Anything you want. **attacks Inigo again**Inigo: **jabs Rugen in his heart** I want my father back, you son of a bitch. **drives the blade home**
14
- Characters.General And I: He gets pushed off a tower... and lands on a spear.
16
- Characters.Devil May Cry Vergil: In 5, he gets to join in on the Sparda family tradition of getting impaled by their own swords. He separated his human and demon halves by impaling himself with the Yamato. During the final boss fight in Mission 20, he can impale Nero first if the player times right, which immediately prompts Nero to yank out Yamato and impale Vergil in return. It turns out in Visions of V, he was impaled by a demon who attacked his home when he was a child, which in turn summoned Yamato in front of him.
17 - 18
- Characters.Final Destination 5: Double Subverted. He is pushed off a collapsing catwalk and manages to catch a lifting hook before landing on a metal spike... except he caught the hook with his head.
- Characters.Final Destination 5: How she dies in the premonition. She falls off the bridge and lands on a boat mast.
21
- ScaryBlackMan.Live Action Films: Kynette of Cliffhanger is an evil martial artist who dispassionately guns down a helpless teenage boy for just having seen his face. This lets us cheer when Sylvester Stallone shoves his evil heart into a stalagmite.
26
- Literature.Egils Saga: In the Battle of Vinheid, Thorolf skewers the English defector Earl Hring through his chest with a spear, then raises him up and plants the spear shaft on the ground so both armies can see the earl dying. Not long after, the terrified Scots break into a general flight.
27
- ChekhovsGun.Live Action Films: During the big fight in the museum room, Mr. Han tries throwing a spear at Lee, which goes through a wall and into the Hall of Mirrors beyond. The climax of the movie involves Lee kicking Han right into the spear and Impaling Him With Extreme Prejudice.
Now this was just a quick look, if I went and checked the full context and backstory for all the ZCE and "normal" examples, there'd probably be a few more.
CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
Yeah I kinda put my own idea of what this trope is about
But I still think it needs help, I just not sure what kind of help it needs
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
If cleanup is all that's needed, you could start a Short-Term Projects thread and we could close this thread.
However, if more than cleanup is needed, it would be nice to know so we could have a crowner.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I just don't think the extreme prejudice part of the name is really necessary, if any impalement qualifies. That was the reason I came up with a rather arbitrary definition of what extreme prejudice entails.
It does seem like the name is what's the issue here given that the description seems pretty straightforward. We could just go with something like Shocking Impalement to stress that the point of this trope is to play up the shock-value of the impalement, either by it's unexpectedness (someone being suddenly stabbed from behind), it's gruesomeness, or it's absurdity (this last one is where the non-traditional impalements
would fall)
Also just to keep track, we've identified Human Pincushion, Pinned to the Wall, Dead Guy on Display and maybe Torso with a View as tropes to send some of the misuse
Edited by amathieu13 on Feb 17th 2022 at 11:53:40 AM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Are you suggesting we vote on whether to expand the definition to cover misuse, and possibly rename? If so, I can make a crowner with those two options.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 17th 2022 at 12:30:14 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
the Retromancer
Well it's either expand (from, to?), restrict or leave it, defenition-wise, and possibly change the name to remove "with prejudice" since it seems to not mean anything currently.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Before I make the crowner, I wanted to check if the list you linked to was for possible redefinition options for Impaled with Extreme Prejudice, as opposed to ideas for new tropes.
Also, there wouldn't be a "do nothing" option because the same vote could be accomplished by downvoting everything.
Aside from the "restrict" options, are these our options? I thought I'd check to see if the other options sound OK.
- Rename
- Expand to cover misuse mentioned in the opening post
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 18th 2022 at 10:21:57 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I hooked a crowner for renaming and/or restricting/redefining in the ways Amonimus mentioned.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
ngl I forgot I posted in this thread until today.
But to answer your question, I don't think I was suggesting to conform to the misuse; I was advocating for a rename and maybe a bit of a tweaking of the description to better emphasize what it seems like the trope is actually about given its description. I'm not sure what I was suggesting is represented in the current crowner, tbh
Edited by amathieu13 on Feb 21st 2022 at 4:04:46 AM
the Retromancer
I was referring to this post for upvoted option reference, but to be honest, I kinda forgot how it's different from the current definition. I think the idea is for it to not be quick and preferably through vital organs, because all-the-way-through stabs with swords and spears are fairly normal and common. And also it can address ZCE that don't specify that the weapon goes all the way through.
Is actual death required for the trope or the character can survive that?
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
I think survival is acceptable, though it's possible it might count as a subversion depending on what the trope is supposed to mean for the story?
The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
the Retromancer
Also if the trope happens to get renamed, then what the "extreme prejudice" even means would stop being an issue anyway (it still needs to be something tropworthy) and the description may require minor adjustments.
Edited by Amonimus on Feb 21st 2022 at 1:40:29 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Do we need a new crowner option related to survival, or would it already be covered by Tropes Are Flexible and/or Playing with a Trope?
If a new option is added, I can bump the ATT bulletin, which is what I usually do if additional options are added.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 21st 2022 at 5:14:11 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I think Tropes Are Flexible covers this. Especially in fantasy medias, characters might have some advantage that make it harder to kill them, so even if they were run through with a sword, or fell onto a giant stake from a great height, they would still survive.
Edited by Hello83433 on Feb 21st 2022 at 8:47:49 AM
CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
(she/her)
Calling crowner in favor of "Define as "Being impaled by the weapon thoroughly, maybe even left in the body, and not just being stabbed".
Macron's notes
the Retromancer
Did anything change? And is there anything to do besides ZCE cleaning?
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
(she/her)
Not sure but I don't think there's that much misuse for just stabbing. Going by the wick check anyways. This definition fits the way most people use the trope.
Since we basically conformed the trope to include examples that were once considered misuse, we probably don't have to do anything. I guess we can close this thread if there are no objections?
Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 24th 2022 at 11:09:10 AM
Macron's notes
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Sure?
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Do we need to tweak the description a bit?
(she/her)
I think the description is fine. It makes it clear that just being stabbed isn't an example of the trope. But maybe need to put emphasis on the "all the way through" part if that's not there already
Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 24th 2022 at 12:43:04 PM
Macron's notes
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I'm pretty sure it's already there.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Crown Description:
Impaled With Extrem Prejudice is frequently misused. What should be done with it?
Would it be worth creating something like Impaled For Display, where someone is actually impaled and left to hang for whatever reason? Sorta like what Vlad did with all those he executed?