Needs Help (Page Action Crowner): Film.Zapruder Film

Then attention should be paid to how a large chunk of this wiki is precisely that.

As I said, that's much too broad a project to handle within a single TRS topic. Also, you can help by not adding to the problem.

Would still like clarification as to why Roundhay Garden Scene is a work page in good standing and this is likely to get cut.

edited 15th Jun '18 11:26:52 AM by jamespolk

Because that's actually a creative work by an artist and not amateur footage of a man actually being murdered by someone who was just trying to make a cool home movie of a famous person.

If you want to argue that this deserves to be treated like a creative work and troped accordingly, why don't you start by acknowledging that this is an honest-to-god Snuff Film where a person was actually shot to death in front of a horrified crowd.

edited 15th Jun '18 11:57:01 AM by Dirtyblue929

We can trope documentary works, although it barely scratches at the surface of that concept. The article also has a lot of shoehorned tropes. It might end up getting cut for being a stub if nothing else, but I suppose it has historical significance.

Also, please stop with the Whataboutism. Bad articles aren't justified because we have other bad articles. You're really pushing the envelope, here.

edited 15th Jun '18 11:59:40 AM by Fighteer

That film is indeed debatable. For one, it says it is the oldest surviving film, but the first trope (Early-Installment Weirdness) declares it to be the FIRST film ever made. Also, the page seems to be very insistent on the work being a film, but the trope:

In other words, you have just demonstrated why that page might warrant a cut or Useful Notes treatment as well.

Edit: I created a Trope Repair entry for it, we can discuss it there once it opens.

edited 15th Jun '18 12:15:06 PM by Redmess

Congratulations, JamesPolk. You played yourself.

Did I, now?

My arguments remain the same. A man set out with the intention to make a movie and he made it. He picked a spot and pressed the button on the camera at a particular time, and made a film. That film has a title and a copyright and a space on the National Film Registry and can in fact be demonstrated to contain certain tropes such as Pink Mist, Jump Cut, and In the Back. Of course that choice was not even allowed in the crowner. Still think it's an obvious candidate for Useful Notes, since Wikipedia has already provided us a list of uses of the film in fiction.

edited 16th Jun '18 1:34:34 PM by jamespolk

You make it sound like Zapruder INTENDED for the assasination to happen, which is obviously not true. Or are you going to tell us he was secretly in league with the shooter, now?

We have tropes like Throw It In! and Harpo Does Something Funny; the director/cameraman doesn't need to know what will happen for a film to count as a creative work.

(Note: I voted for Useful Notes because I don't believe this counts as a "creative work" or "work" for short. James Polk and I have established our disagreement in ATT.)

1. "Keep it in the Film namespace" is a "do nothing" option. The default rule is to "do nothing". If every choice is under consensus, it doesn't matter if that's the choice with the fewest votes, it wins by default.
2. "tasteful" cannot be decided here. Vulgar Humour, Dead Baby Comedy, and Shock Jock tropes show that people don't agree on "tasteful". That is better determined by the No Real Life Examples Please process.

edited 16th Jun '18 3:09:56 PM by crazysamaritan

But that's just it: this IS a real life example. It is not simply a tasteless movie. It is a real life murder. If we treat it like a movie, we will effectively be troping a snuff film.

When do we call the vote, by the way? Are there any guidelines?

We're at five days and moving it to Useful Notes has a significant lead. I think we can call this and start the work shortly. Also, whoever added "do nothing" to the crowner should know that's a violation of our rules.

edited 20th Jun '18 12:08:09 PM by Fighteer

It however does not have a 2/3 lead, probably because it's not clear why it would have a right to exist as an Useful Notes page.

I think the "do nothing" option implies a cleanup of the tropes list.

If the motion to move doesn't pass, then it will be cut by default, since it is not suitable as a work article. That part is not up for debate.

I can certainly live with that. Especially since I proposed a cut in the first place.

The crowner is here, if anyone (like me) is having trouble viewing it with the new design.

Move to UsefulNotes.Zapruder Film is at 23:9 in favour. That's four votes over the 2:1 threshold for consensus, so we may wish to monitor for fluctuations.

I'll approve the move after we get the immediate tech issues resolved.

What tech issues?

With the site. Which are going on right now. You might have noticed?

Of course I know, but which specific issues are you talking about?

The crowner buttons not working, for one.

Is the crowner button working now?

Also, yes we should move this to Useful Notes, but I cannot vote on it (the crowner) as of right now.