Condemned by History cleanup thread

I know I already asked but I'll ask again:

Is it too early to say that X-Play counts as Condemned by History? Considering the horrifying anti-Asian racism (and Adam Sessler's response to being called out on it), it's becoming dangerously close to it...but there's probably still some affection for it (and the backlash to the reboot was for sexist reasons)

and them's the breaks

G4 is a weird example. I remember for years older video game fans loving it as the one place games were portrayed accurately that wasn’t on the internet, and condemned it’s Network Decay.

Nowadays, while people still praise G4 for being unique for its time, there’s a greater realization of how much casual sexism, racism, and homophobia was in those shows and, tons of low-hanging fruit. Maybe the rebooted G4’s shockingly quick crash-and-burn was some kind of awakening for people to realize the cracks and how much didn’t age well.

Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Mar 22nd 2024 at 9:39:02 AM

Everybody loves the me! I’m a great athlete!

I could see it working as an example same

I specifically just wanted X-Play because I felt that it would make a good poster child for how badly the network aged.

Also, it wasn't a G4 original, it was from Tech TV and G4 kept it when Comcast bought the network.

But I can probably turn it into about G4 as a whole, I just need to find examples of other shows being Not Okay with this kind of stuff.

Edited by man-alive on Mar 22nd 2024 at 11:25:21 AM

and them's the breaks

Just dropping a note here: we made mistake of letting DEATH BATTLE! stay in Web Original page while the show was still running. But with Rooster Teeth shut down, I think we can keep it until the show returns (if ever).

Regarding "There's Something About Marrying", which was recently removed: did we even reach a consensus on episodes of non-concluded shows? I think having that restriction on top of "the episode must be at least 5 years old" is unnecessary — sure, a show could theoretically release an episode that retroactively redeems the CDH episode, but you could also have a long Sequel Gap followed by a sequel that retroactively redeems a CDH work. (Also, "a CDH work is retroactively redeemed by a follow-up" sounds like a very niche phenomenon anyway.)

Yeah, if it’s redeemed by it’s follow up, than it’s probably not condemned by history anymore. Then it would just be a Contested Sequel or so. The Simpsons has been going on for more than thirty years, I think it can be an exception. The show’s already been discussed here, specifically on whether or not Herbert Powell has aged poorly.

Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Mar 24th 2024 at 8:41:58 AM

Everybody loves the me! I’m a great athlete!

I thought that as a rule, an individual episode can't be CBH if the series is still airing? That episode does seem to fit better under Fair for Its Day: At the time it was considered progressive, but now the handling of its message has come under fire.

Edited by SharkToast on Mar 24th 2024 at 8:30:12 AM

My own intuition is that series with ongoing plots like Avatar: The Last Airbender should be counted from their finale, but with shows like The Simpsons we can look at episodes as their own thing since they are made to stand alone.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.

I personally agree. Serialized works and works that are self-contained tend to be in different ballparks of judgement.

Orcus on His Throne will always be my pet peeve.

and Films and video games can have sequels, yet some earlier entries in active franchises have examples.

For televised works, perhaps an exception can be made if each episode is standalone and the series has at least ten seasons.

Perhaps it could be amended as at least five years after the series has ended or at least 20 years after the episode of an ongoing series with primarily standalone episodes has aired, whichever comes first.

It would be best put into a vote first.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Mar 24th 2024 at 6:19:16 AM

Kirby is awesome.

So not only did the finales for Game of Thrones and Star vs. the Forces of Evil air on the night of May 19, 2019 (meaning their NREP limitations will expire in just under two months) but both finales were...controversial, to say the least.

I saw a recent discussion regarding Game of Thrones where it was determined that it doesn't qualify for CBH...but what about Star VS?

I'm lovin' it. (My Troper Wall)

I feel like the previous seasons of Star vs. are still regarded about the same—some good stuff, some bad. I haven't seen people reevaluate the whole series as bad just because of the finale.

Yeah, people still like seasons 1-2 at least

Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 26th 2024 at 5:13:47 AM

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

This entry recently got added to the music subpage:

• Suicide Silence were one of many bands to benefit from the rising popularity of deathcore in the late 2000s. Despite being scoffed at by metal purists, they managed to become hugely successful and even the death of Mitch Lucker seemed to be nothing but a speed bump after his replacement by Eddie Hermida. However, the band's fortunes would take a bad turn with the release of their self-titled fifth album, which saw them make a Genre Shift to Nu Metal. Professional critics were ambivalent about the album, but fans were outraged by what they saw as the band selling out. To make matters worse, Eddie Hermida was accused of sexual harassment. While he managed to escape legal consequences, the damage was done. While the band would return to their classic sound with Become The Hunter and Remember... You Must Die, both albums have been poor sellers despite a positive reception from critics. Today, the band stands as another cautionary tale of what happens when you piss off your fans.

This entry makes no mention of any retroactive backlash to the band's earlier stuff and seems more like an example of Creator Killer.

There's also an entry which was added to Comic book page.

• The Boys has a huge critical and commercial success, it was nominated for an Eisner, Diamond Comic Distributor Gem, and Scream Awards from 2008 to 2010, and a film adaptation that would later become its acclaimed TV series was greenlit only 16 months after the first issue was published. It was praised for its deconstructive nature of superheroes in a time when that was still new and for it's shock humor. While the comic was initially cancelled after six issues, it was less because of its quality and sales and more because Wildstorm's owner, DC Comics, didn't like that the antagonists were Corrupted Character Copies of the Justice League, and it was able to continue publication after the rights were sold to Dynamite. However, over time, the comic started to draw heavy scrutiny for it's bleak tone, vulgar humor getting phased out in The New '10s, the Supes coming off as spiteful Shallow Parodies, the Anvillicious Anti-Superhero message, and Beware the Superman becoming a pretty cliched approach to superhero deconstruction in recent years. It also didn't help that comics like Invincible were better received for telling a similar story, but had its deconstruction and satire be more affectionate. Now, whenever the comic gets any praise, it's for how it spawned a TV series that's a definitive example of an adaptation being better than its source material.

Not really sure if the comic is really THAT hated nowadays.

I have seen more widespread critiques of the comic in comparison to the well-received Amazon series through high-profile videos like 'The Boys' Comic Was Kinda Terrible, though we also have counterexamples like The Boys Comic is Kinda Great!

In general, I think it's always been a divisive comic given its dark tone and subject matter, so it's hard to gauge if it's truly been condemned.

Nah. The comic has always been divisive. I don't think that's changed. So i'd personally remove5.

Edited by miraculous on Apr 1st 2024 at 8:31:11 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Echoing and on the fact that The Boys can't count for this trope due to the fact the comic was always divise and still is divise to this day instead of people unanimously loving it and then hating it.

"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him

Fro m Creed's YMMV page

• Condemned by History: The backlash began right around the time they broke up and didn't slow down for years; for a time it was almost a social taboo to say that you were a Creed fan and just about everyone was ashamed of the Creed album they owned circa 2000. In 2013, readers of Rolling Stone voted them as the worst band of the 1990s by such a wide margin the editors claimed the competition "wasn't even close", with much maligned Nickelback coming in a distant second. When Creed got back together and released Full Circle in 2009, it was slammed by critics and was a commercial failure, barely going gold. The subsequent concert tour didn't fare much better, with tickets for a Birmingham concert dropping to as low as 75 cents. That being said, as of late 2023, Creed seems to be experiencing a resurgence in popularity, and may be on the way to Vindicated by History status. In this video, one commentator posits that the public perception of Creed is beginning to shift to metamodern appreciation, in which people may acknowledge Creed's goofier aspects, but still love the music on a genuine level. A lot of this may have to do with Creed's original elder Millennial fanbase becoming old enough not to care whether or not the band is considered "cool" by tastemakers, and younger generations' exposure to them through memory. Notably, the song "Higher" experienced a resurgence in exposure when it was reported that the Texas Rangers had been listening to it for motivation. This culminated in Creed themselves attending a Rangers game and singing along with fans, and the Rangers eventually winning the 2023 World Series. Creed's "Summer Of '99" tour announcement for 2024 was met with an overwhelmingly positive response, and some Creed fans have begun dubbing themselves "Crifties".

This should be Popularity Polynominal.

This was recently added to the main page.

• Ancient Aliens theories were an extremely popular concept in the 20th century, both as a media trope and as an actual fringe scientific theory used to explain many of the world's mysteries. In the 21st century, the concept came under much heavier scrutiny however, both because of better research debunking many of the once popular arguments, and the much greater understanding of the immense racial biases built into the theories and their intended purpose in discrediting non-white civilizations (sarcastically described by Quinton Reviews as "Aliens don't like white people"). The concept is now treated as, at best, a science fiction trope of questionable origins, and at worst an extension of dangerous anti-science movements primed to make people distrust basic facts in the name of their beliefs.

From what I've seen the ancient alien theory was never really a popular concept beyond being mocked, especially in recent times for being dismissive of non-white civilization.

The concept of Ancient Aliens hasn't died down either (you don't get a show about that concept running for fifteen years for nothing). It's always been a fringe topic/conspiracy theory, one with believers, but also tons of doubt and mockery.

Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Apr 2nd 2024 at 8:30:36 AM

Everybody loves the me! I’m a great athlete!

That's a trope. And honestly, those ancient alien theories have been mined by writers to create a lot of new fictional works to this very day, so I'm not sure if it's considered a Discredited Trope.

While there are more discussions today about the racist aspect of the Ancient Aliens theories, it's not like serious historians and scientists were particularly keen about the theory decades ago.

Ancient Astronauts mentions that Chariot of the Gods (1968) was the book that popularized the concept. The Wikipedia page for the book notes that it received pretty negative reception from the academic community.

Granted, the entry seems to be more about general opinion regarding the theory, but I feel it's pretty hard to measure the popularity of a conspiracy theory. These things are fringe by default but can have pretty devoted believers as a result.

I think Ancient Aliens (talking about its use in fiction; it was obviously always extremely fringe as an actual theory, and I'm not very knowledgeable about the actual Conspiracy Theory) has definitely seen a lot of decline in the last couple of decades for the reasons mentioned: you do see it, but it's a lot more likely to be Played for Laughs or Lampshaded than used straight.

I wouldn't call it Condemned by History. It may be on its way to becoming a Dead Horse Trope, though.