Marvel's Luke Cage (Netflix series)

I saw the first two episodes (been spoiled on further developments though), and I thought they were really great. The music is awesome and I'm not sure how I recognize this element except through Popcultural Osmosis, but like there are these blaxpoitation style "framing of a character"- don't know the right term for it, but it's like the camera freezes on their face and there's a musical riff in the background.

I have a bit of an issue with Luke Cage's (the character- not sure about the show) "black Conservative" politics, but I don't have that much of a problem, because the open discussion of it in the opening barbershop scene makes it come across as an element of characterization as opposed to the show having a Writer on Board. Like Pops (I think) replies to something Cage says by saying something to the effect of "there you go again with that Fox News stuff" . And since I know/have read a fair amount of mystery fiction, it also informs Cage's and Pop's literary tastes. Pops likes an author who writes about pimps and militant black heroes, whereas Cage most likes Easy Rawlins, whose character is all about seeking respectability. Cage also likes but not as much Chester Himes, probably both because Himes was a Reformed Criminal (unlike the athor Pops cited) and because his protagonists- badass black cops- are again more along the lines of Cage himself.

On another topic, while it helps that I was spoiled on it, I think it's pretty apparent early on that despite his fairly casual use of violence, Cottonmouth has big elements of honor and vulnerability to his personality, and that Mariah is the more ruthless one of the two. And from knowing the spoilers, it seems like a nice bit of irony that essentially Mabel chose the wrong life for the wrong kid.

When comparing him to Fox News, Pops was teasing. The implication wasn't that Luke watches Fox News, but more the opposite. Like "now you sound like Fox News, lol."

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

That's my understanding too. Should have been clearer. What I meant was more that Pops reacts to that comment (and implied previous comments by Luke) is by saying that Luke saying that sounds like something from Fox News (And That's Terrible). I like the iscussion here. Basically, I'm not sure this version of Luke Cage would necessarily like the Angry Black Man comics version of Cage nor vice versa, but it's not a knock on the show that it's Cage is different and has these views. Nor does it mean that he's "not really black".

Edit- Actually, I haven't really read Cage's more current comics/appearances but I get the impression that this Cage is more in line with them (including but not limited to his being bald), which makes sense.

edited 13th Oct '16 10:25:05 AM by Hodor2

Just watched the first seven episodes of the show. The fight scenes are a little underwhelming, I think Daredevil spoiled everyone on that. But overall it's really solid so far. I really liked the old Chinese couple, and episode 4 was a lot of fun with all the comic Mythology Gags.

One thing that's bothering me about this show though is Luke and several other characters talk about black fathers not being in their children's lives, but so far I haven't seen anyone in the show point out that institutional racism and the Double Standard rather than black culture have a lot to do with this. Is that something that changes later on?

Having read back through some of the previous pages in the thread, I think the main reason they went with Claire/Luke is out of an obligation to the comics. It's likely to be a temporary thing, then they'll push towards Jessica/Luke in Defenders or later seasons of the show, though not before addressing the many, many issues that would get in the way of the ship. Wasn't really feeling the Misty/Luke ship, though they took a fairly mature route with it (one-night stand to test the waters, didn't work out but the two remain acquaintances afterwards).

edited 14th Oct '16 8:03:16 PM by AlleyOop

It's not like Luke really needs to try or even worry about anyone hurting him, so it would naturally be underwhelming.

True, I was referring more to the choreography and cinematography. It's functional at least, a step up from Jessica Jones.

It makes sense, as Jessica iirc mostly fights random people controlled by Kilgrave, while Luke at least goes against gangbangers, so people you can assume already fought in their life. Daredevil faces ninjas (and so will IF I assume?) so they have to look more impressive than the two characters with Super-Strength who go against Average Joe or Average Mook.

edited 14th Oct '16 6:01:34 PM by Julep

The caliber of the mook doesn't matter to Luke since he would just swat them away like the one that tried to get fancy at Harlem's Paradise.

The villain of season 2 should be based on this guy.

"he planned to woo prospective voters in the historically black neighborhood with Kool Aid, fried chicken and watermelons." Talk about tripling down on the stereotypes.

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.

Wow, call it karma.

Anyway I'm on episode 11 and overall I'm really impressed with how they've handled Misty Knight. She's a fleshed out character who avoids the major female stereotypes. She's capable but still has plenty of good and bad traits, reasons to make you root for her plus realistic fears and some really bad flaws. Overall she's got a lot of agency, and remains a sympathetic figure even when she does some rash and Jerkass things I wouldn't have tolerated in a lesser show. Claire is also really great. And I loved her banter with her mother. In general this show does really well with the major female characters, aside from some debatable choices on the way they utilize Mariah Dillard.

Diamondback I'm iffier on. His performance I can accept because it's so entertaining, but it's hard for me to buy him as a successful crime lord considering how maniacal he is. Earlier episodes seemed to set him up as a true Magnificent Bastard compared to Stokes who was more of a Smug Snake who was too honorable/rash for his own safety and got caught up in his ambition, but as it turns out he's just a man with a creepy obsession with taking down Luke. Makes me wonder if Shades was the real brains behind his operation. Mariah's a lot clumsier of a villain than Stokes but I would've probably preferred it if she had equal billing in the fight against Luke other than being portrayed as a helper of Diamondback.

Like, I get why they did the shift, because Diamondback has more of a personal grudge against Luke, and because he was an influential figure in the comics. But the show was able to do just fine when it didn't have this angle. I also wasn't too happy with the way Luke brushed off Claire's questions about his father, unless that's something that gets resolved in the last two episodes, or unless they're saving it for a second season.

And wow Shades' mannerisms really remind me of Littlefinger. Even his face, voice, and style of speaking remind me of Aidan Gillen. I keep expecting him to call Luke "a big guy".

edited 15th Oct '16 8:34:30 PM by AlleyOop

Which questions about his father are you talking about?

Oh God! Natural light!

Episode 10, Claire talks to Luke about seeing his father and what he's up to these days and he just says it doesn't really matter.

You put the Shades reminds you of Little Finger part twice.

Cornell dying was such a waste since he was pretty much plotblocked when things with Luke were moving in his favor, and relationship with Mariah could have tied into the Cain and Abel dynamic they were going for with Luke and Stryker.

edited 15th Oct '16 5:23:40 PM by Cross

Yipes. Fixed.

Anyway I just finished the whole thing, and... overall I think 90% of the show was great, but the conclusion and pacing felt a little lacking in the final stretch. They're definitely setting things up for The Defenders or a second season. I didn't have a problem with Cottonmouth's death midseason, as the series already pushed him as a hotshot Tragic Villain who thought he was bigger than he really was, and not actually capable of sustaining the show for much longer. But it would've probably been better if Mariah stepped up all the way instead of quickly being sidelined by Diamondback, or if they at least approached Diamondback a little differently.

Also why didn't Luke just rip the backpack off of Diamondback's suit at the end? He saw it powering up the rest of the suit, and it would've saved him a lot of pain and trouble. Misty also probably would've had more time to recover her phone or notice it was gone in the time spent on Luke and Diamondback's fight.

I know, right? And here's something that surprised me: when Misty attacks Claire, her captain immediately shuts it down, calls her out, and then asks if Claire wants to press charges. I've never seen that in a cop show before — usually, they let the cop off the hook for hitting a suspect or something, but that doesn't work in real life, because doing that will automatically void any conviction you might get.

Misty tends to come off as stupid or incompetent at times due to how needlessly antagonistic she is a certain points and I'm not talking about ones where she should be emotional.

edited 16th Oct '16 11:51:23 AM by Cross

Misty is a great character, but in-universe she does come across as that, it's her major character flaw (for a master detective, she really doesn't think shit through). A particular case is when she talks to the Psychologist (a character I really liked and found a shame he wasn't seen again), and he just tries to help her, but she keeps brushing him off until rather late in the session.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

She is a toned-down version of DCI John Luther. But it was nice to see the cause for her flaws on-screen, instead of her starting the show with problems that should have denied her to ever become a cop in the first place.

I liked him too, we need more psychiatrists like him media.

BTW, was Cottonmouth's lawyer the same guy as Fisk's?

What was the cause again?

Speaking of lawyers, how did Levi become a Mad Scientist?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

I have just decided that the Netflix shows rival Hogwarts houses....Daredevil is through and through Gryffindor, always stubbornly storming ahead no matter the consequences. Jessica is positively Slytherin, tricking her prey into defeat. Luke is Ravenclaw, despite his abilities he treats taking down criminals like a game of chess. And I bet Iron Fist will be pure Hufflepuff, all loyal and hard-working. Only the colours are messed up...it fits for Daredevil (red) but Jessica is blue infused with purple and Luke Cage is Yellow.

edited 16th Oct '16 1:30:14 PM by Swanpride

Her partner was dirty and she never even suspected him. Then Cottonmouth gets away scot-free after being brought in.

I doubt rich kid Iron Fist will fit within the hard-working Hufflepuff House.

If I go with the Wikia descriptions (I assume a Potter wikia is faithful to the materials):

...then I agree about Matt, but I see Jess somewhere between Ravenclaw and Slytherin (seriously, she has zero ambition, and that's supposed to be Sly's defining trait), and Luke between Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw.

Yep, same guy. I think his name's Donovan? He seems to specialize in crime bosses...

edited 16th Oct '16 1:49:36 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!

That's Ben Donovan, also known as a villain called "Big Ben."