Okay, didn't notice there was a change, but I'll cut editing real world figures.
No longer a forum herald
The way the change reads, we're just not allowed to use tropes to talk about people who are still alive. I guess the principle here is that all accounts of deceased people are second-hand and thus will include tropes. A mod can correct me if I'm wrong.
That said, I have to ask how this change would apply to autobiographies of people still living. (I did make a page for one, after all.)
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Lost in Space
Being alive or not is not a relevant criterion. At issue is that we do not trope real people, period. If such people appear in fiction, then their Useful Notes page may contain a list of tropes commonly found in their portrayals in said works.
edited 30th Oct '14 5:22:32 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That. Dead or alive, we don't trope real people, period. However, dead or alive, if someone is in a work then we can trope how they're portrayed.
State of Mind
So, pretty much ever US president has a trope list about them men themselves on their Useful Notes pages. Should those be removed?
"What a century this week has been." - Seung Min Kim
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Are the tropes about fictional portrayals or about the people themselves?
Who watches the watchmen?
State of Mind
Themselves. Here's some bits from random pages:
- Black Best Friend: His personal slave, Billy Lee.
- Boisterous Bruiser: He suppressed this quality because he aspired to be a gentleman, only letting go of himself when he was alone with his soldiers.
- Broken Pedestal: Defied for that very reason. He ordered many of his personal papers destroyed after his death. He did so, because he knew how much the American people admired him; and feared the affect on morale if they learned he was only human, and as such flawed.
- Call to Agriculture: His farms on Mount Vernon.
- Ideal Hero
- Large and in Charge: Standing at 6'4, he's the tallest US president to date.
- Magnum Opus: The Gettysburg Address is the most quoted and acclaimed speech in American history.
- Nice Hat: He's well-known for his stovepipe hat, which at least during his tenure as a public servant would also be a Hat of Authority.
edited 7th Nov '14 1:49:37 PM by Parable
"What a century this week has been." - Seung Min Kim
I'm sincerely hoping this rule does not extend to companies (who can't count to 3 again?) and countries...
To be honest, I don't see a good reason to trope them either.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
To me, the wholesale deletion of trope lists on the ground "we do not trope real people" seems a bit hypocritical, given that most categories of tropes allow Real Life examples unless stated otherwise (No Real Life Examples, Please!).
Even if trope lists for historical figures are considered harmful, why wouldn't it be legitimate to link to tropes from the biographical description?
You know, I've wondered myself several times as well.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
I have to disagree. The big difference in applying tropes to people vs real life examples is real life are supposed to partly demonstrate tropes don't spring from vacuum. Tropes applied people almost never work because they are largely a device of fiction and consistently stretch beyond reality. Never mind many tropes applied to real people are often shoe horned to begin with.
Who watches the watchmen?
Elder statesman
Real life examples can describe events as well as people, although applying narrative devices to real life (which doesn't have writers or characters in the sense we typically define these terms) is dubious in any case. Moreover, from what I've seen, real life examples are particularly prone to shoehorning, even when the subject is not controversial. Personally, I'd just as soon not have real life examples at all, although having them doesn't bother me. (I've added one or two myself.)
Bigotry in the name of inclusion is still bigotry.
I've just been told that historical figures cannot be troped anymore. Excuse me, I didn't see this rule on the Historical Domain Characters page, so I feel I should ask here.
To be fair, the page we are talking about had some controversies, but contains more informative tropes than No Real Life Examples Please tropes.
edited 28th Oct '14 8:23:38 PM by enderheisenberg