Unclear Description: Hachiko

As you can see on the page, the description of Hachiko is pretty much nothing but the story of the Trope Namer, and tells nothing about the trope.

This has led to the examples being a confusing mess. The examples seem to mostly alternate between "a Stock Shout-Out to the Trope Namer", "Undying Loyalty with a dog", and just plain Heroic Dog (with a small amount of overlap). The second doesn't really need to be its own trope, and the third already is.

If there are enough examples of the first type, I'd say it needs a rewrite and example pruning to better match that (probably along with a rename). If not, then the trope just needs to be cut. So...thoughts?

Is the dog used as a short-hand for or to invoke Undying Loyalty? Then it is a trope. I think, however, any specific dog might be a vivid example, but the trope is: A pet is an emblem of loyalty. I'd move the text of the description as a Real Life example in Undying Loyalty and redirect links to Hachiko to that article.

edited 15th Apr '14 7:34:36 PM by FastEddie

Split the entries: UsefulNotes.Hachiko for the actual dog and the statues (they appear frequently enough that he should qualify as an Historical Domain Character), with Undying Loyalty for "loyal dogs".

I'm cool with a merge (edit: or ), although after a quick and partial wick check I'm beginning to note a pattern of some of the shout-outs being centered around meeting at a statue of the Trope Namer. That might be a trope itself, so we could consider hauling those examples off to YKTTW.

edited 15th Apr '14 7:48:44 PM by TotemicHero

Seems like something along the lines of Shout-Outs Index / Stock Shoutouts.

Historical Domain Character is not a Stock Shout-Out, and nor is the Statue Of Liberty.

The page should really be more Adolf Hitler, Obama sort of thing. It's a historical figure that is used repetitively in works of fiction.

The page is about the dog and its statue. I would keep it as is, but in the Useful Notes namespace.

I agree with crazysamaritan's proposal in 3.

Me Too!

Another vote for 3.

3 sounds like the best bet

I think Dogs Are Loyal is worth having its own trope page as a subtrope for Undying Loyalty. I think it's a pretty specific subtrope and the fact that we associate it so heavily with dogs in particular is worth noting on its own page.

I mean, audiences pretty much assume that a dog will have infallible loyalty to their owner. That's worth its own page, I think.

Agree with the moving Hachiko to Useful Notes, though.

Sounds like we need a crowner. Mind if I make one?

. That sounds like an aspect of Canine Companion.

Useful Note.

And anybody who wants to could start a YKTTW for Loyal Dog or Loyal Animal Companion or something.

Good call. I withdraw my point and say examples should go to either Undying Loyalty or Canine Companion, depending on the context.

Since I was the only one with opposition, and I've since withdrawn it, I'm pretty sure a crowner won't be necessary if no one else opposes. That said, we should give people more time to chime in if they so desire.

Even if you withdrew your proposal, there are still multiple possible options (turn into Useful Notes, spin off a trope about meeting at a Hachiko statue, merge with Undying Loyalty, redirect the original page to either the Useful Notes page or Undying Loyalty, and so on) that were proposed, most of which are not "opposed" or mutually exclusive.

Hence why a crowner might be best.

edited 16th Apr '14 4:58:41 PM by TotemicHero

My point was no one has opposed the proposal of "turn Hachiko into a Useful Notes page and move trope-y examples to Undying Loyalty." Unless that's what you're doing now.

Some of which are. I'll type up a UsefulNotes.Hachiko tomorrow for when that plan gets enough votes. Here are the options I'm planning on voting up:

• Cut the page Main.Hachiko (the auto-disambiguation page will direct people to UsefulNotes.Hachiko)
• Move/Improve the description to UsefulNotes.Hachiko
• Move examples of "loyal dogs" to Canine Companion and Undying Loyalty.

I'm not inclined to support "meeting at the Hachiko statue" trope because I haven't seen anyone eager to sponsor it. I don't think TRS needs to mandate the creation of that page, although I'm not opposed to the page. I'm not familiar enough with the trope to sponsor it.

Crowner made, awaiting the hook.

And hooked.

With 13 votes in favour, I went ahead and posted the new page at UsefulNotes.Hachiko

edited 17th Apr '14 10:26:04 AM by crazysamaritan

Crowners are not supposed to be called until at least three days have passed, and typically only when there are at least fifteen votes total on the top option. Or in short: too soon, Executus! Too soon!

I'm half tempted to send it to the Cut List.

edited 17th Apr '14 11:37:21 AM by TotemicHero

Usually, yes. However... (1) I'm not asking the crowner to be called, that's for Saturday. (2) 15 votes is an accepted minimum. 10:0 is also acceptable, because if half the number of votes go against the trend, the 2:1 proportion is maintained. (3) The three-day minimum is part of Three Rules of Three.

Now, the policy page does say that you should wait for the crowner to close before starting work, but we had a pretty positive reaction to the page in the thread, with no real dissent to the job. Therefore, I strongly doubt the consensus will change at this point. Wick work should wait until the crowner gets shut down, but duplicating examples should be fine.