What needs to change in these genres to stay fresh(ish)?

I was going through an old notebook of story ideas I'd had a few years ago, looking for something to kickstart some dormant creativity. There were a few solid ideas in there, but they're mostly post-apocalyptic based and that genre has become a bit overburdened.

So I'm wondering what tropes I should subvert or deconstruct - or indeed play straight - in order to keep things fresh. I'm not looking for a nihil sub sole novum, just what would make you guys go back to an overused genre.

Doesn't even have to be PA. If there's an overused or underused trope that bugs you, go nuts.

I really want to see more post-post-apocalyptic fiction. Instead of the rather played-out struggle to survive immediately after the disaster, it would focus on the rising new civilizations of the period a few centuries or so later once rebuilding is underway. Literally the only existing example of this I can think of is Fallout: New Vegas.

In fact, in general it would be nice to see more stories two steps removed from reality.

edited 9th Apr '14 3:37:51 AM by nrjxll

I'd like to second Mr. Nrjxll, if I got that name right. As a fan of the Fallout series, it frustrates me to no end to see these comfy little settings - in certain anime, even going so far as having a world that is essentially indistinguishable from ours - and then realize that someone has slapped a "post-apocalyptic" sticker on because why not?

NO. I don't want to see "the last x number of guys in a horrible world", or "pseudo-apocalyptic society", but new, strikingly different characters and factions evolving out of a dynamic world that rose from the ashes of the old one. And it should also have a sense of humor.

edited 9th Apr '14 4:51:36 AM by gingerman

A Work Com that doesn't smack of Dilbert-level drudgery, stupid bosses, stupid coworkers/customers, stupid bureaucracy, and just has a casual atmosphere about the workplace.

I third Nrjxll's statement. This "post-post-apocalypse" is something I'd very much like to see in genre writing. New Vegas was a very well-written game, and was interesting in large part because it's story dealt with the intersection of and competing interests between these various factions in the Mojave.

I recently had an idea for something in this vein, except to do with the zombie apocalypse. After the shock of the apocalypse collapsed society, the transformed world has begun to deal with the changes it wrought.

Zombies are more an ambient hazard than an active threat, sort of like a natural disaster. They're not smart, have no ability to plan ahead and their behavior is fairly predictable. So, strategies can be developed to deal with them. Like a natural disaster, they are subject to statistical analysis. The threat of zombies could be demystified, their population density recorded and used to manipulate them. Zombies are stupid, so they won't be able to tell the difference between noise that leads them to food and Black Sabbath belted out at maximum volume from strategically placed loudspeakers. Stuff like that. Human beings using their intelligence to figure out the rules their new world works by, and exploiting these rules to not only survive but thrive.

New Vegas was a great game. Adventure Time might also fit into the category you all seem to be describing, but it is more emergent than immediately apparent. So more structure, less obvious nihilism?

Twentington: so... where does the humour come from in that case? I was thinking about how pretty universally horrible work coms about writers have been, and it would be excellent to see a genuinely funny and insightful one. Maybe something with comedians as the main focus.

Gault, you might be interested in the Newsflesh trilogy by Mira Grant if you haven't read it. Very much a society coping with the zombies, and a well-realized one.

Thanks for the recommendation. I had not heard of that series. I'll check it out.

High Fantasy, Low Fantasy and Heroic Fantasy need to get out of Medieval Stasis. It seems they either have to be medieval or Sci Fi. What about a fantasy world that much resembles our own, technology-wise? Want orcs with assault rifles and RPG's pl0x.

Have you ever read Pride And Prejudice And Zombies?

I've heard of it in passing, but never read it. Why? Does it deal with these questions?

Somewhat. It does treat zombies as more of a nuisance to be dealt with than a horrifying disaster. Of course being set when it was there's not much statistical analysis going on.

From places other than stupidity and boredom. It can come from silly and quirky, too. For instance, Regular Show is essentially a Work Com, but a lot of its plots are driven by silly, surreal exaggerations of situations that would seem mundane on the surface. Granted, theirs is a job that doesn't have "customers" per se, but I think that a similar approach could work in say, a retail job. Customers can be interesting and entertaining without feeling like they walked out of the "Extra Stupid" category on Not Always Right. (As an aside, the show also focuses on life outside the workplace, which is a facet I like too.)

Maybe it's just me, but I've never worked a real job in my life (not for lack of effort!), so I'm like the only person who can't identify with "dude, there's nothing to do here half the time and the boss has the IQ of a brick" mentality that is so present in Work Coms.

Ironically, the last third of Macross.

I'll have to consider watching it, then.

Oh god yes. Seriously, by this point I'm just sick of medieval settings in general, unless they're very well done, like A Song Of Ice And Fire. (And seriously, how many writers can worldbuild like that?) I don't think any of my serious story ideas is set in a world earlier than the 1500s-equivalent, and the grand bulk of them are set closer to the Industrial Revolution. Where are the fantasies set in the Bronze Age, the Enlightenment, the Roaring Twenties? Much more interesting than another bland, stale twelfth-century England analogue with the depth and reader interest of cardboard.

The Legend Of Korra is set in a Roaring Twenties equivalent. Being set in the middle ages wouldn't be so overdone if it wasn't always the European middle ages either. If you have to include swordfights why not make a setting inspired by medieval India for a change. And just because the technology is medieval doesn't mean you have to have a feudal society.

Or Stone Age fantasy. It's the longest period of humanity's existence after all. If you want to have technological stasis, this one is actually believable with millennia of little progress.

If I were looking for an example of a Fantasy world that has advanced beyond the tropes of typical middle-ages fantasy, I would not use Korra as an example because the show does basically nothing with the new setting. Republic City sure makes for pretty scenery, but the plots of both seasons of that show can be summed up as: chosen one defeats bad guy. Absolutely nothing that the Fantasy genre hasn't already seen, or indeed been inundated with, there.

The Legend of Korra is a large part of the reason why I've come to believe it isn't so much the setting itself that's important as what you do with it. If the Legend of Korra had spent time on exploring the fascinating world it was set in as opposed to rehashing typical hero plot conventions, it would undoubtedly be one of the best animated TV shows of all time.

edited 10th Apr '14 9:14:52 AM by gault

Oh man, I'd be so, so up for that. I don't think I've ever seen a story where the fantasy world is at our technological level or perhaps even a Cold War equivalent - the idea of said orcs in not!MiGs or elf spec ops in IFVs tickles me pink for some reason. Also, bonus points if the magical elements aren't blatantly superior to technological equivalents, but are rather equal instead.

I kind of want to write this, now, or at least flesh it out. Good idea or bad idea?

Another thing I'd like to see is serious soft science fiction. There seems to be this peculiar mental block that prevents people from imagining soft sci-fi trying to tell a serious story.

I think that Brandon Snderson is working on something along the lines of "Modern Fantasy" in the upcoming sequels to the Mistborn books; as it stands he has at least one set in that world's "Wild-West" period, as I recall.

I've been juggling a world like that off-and-on for a bit now. Have a good setup and good world, just need to nail down a precise story.

On your second point, Starcraft II works in psychic powers and a lot of other soft sci-fi elements and has a very serious and enthralling storyline.

edited 10th Apr '14 10:26:23 AM by somerandomdude

Blaz Blue and Guilty Gear are set in sort of post-post apocalyptic societies.

In my experience, most times when people say a genre needs to do something new, there are already a bunch of stories that do the "new" thing they're suggesting; most folks just don't know they exist. People already mentioned some post-post-apocalypse stories, but as for Work Coms not focused on drudgery or stupidity, there's Cheers and post-Season 4 Community. And for High and/or Heroic Fantasy stories not set in a medievally world, there's The Half-Made World/The Rise of Ransom City, His Dark Materials, The Rithmatist, and The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.

Ah, I see.

I think I'd need to wait until said sequels appear before I could say whether or not that's what I'm looking for.

Awesome! I'm sure you can manage it.

Ah, I see.

That can be true, yeah.

Hell, A Canticle For Leibowitz is the book that started off post-apocalypse fiction as a genre, and it features both post-post-apocalypse and post-post-post-apocalypse...

edited 11th Apr '14 5:28:49 AM by imadinosaur

Heh, I was going to mention that. I believe David Brin's The Postman is part of that genre too.