Not Tropeworthy: Hot Mom

By "merge with Stacy's Mom" I mean "cut and redirect to Stacy's Mom."

Attractiveness and attraction do not always go hand in hand. The former has in the past proven not to be notable and always leads to tropers listing their masturbation targets; the latter is tropable and is often a storyline tool.

"Likes Older Women" is more general than Stacy's Mom and is about adults with actual sexual conquests, not youngsters and their crushes.

As a participant to the Too Good to Last TRS, I have to strenuously object towards merging such unrelated pages. Yes, even "cut and redirect". Especially "cut and redirect".

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Cutting's an even better solution, but we want to keep the inbounds, right?

Cutting is not necessarily better - consider that we don't have a supertrope for "characters are on average more attractive than real people in average", as well as my note about mothers being run-down from the load of having children.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I think On Screen People Are More Attractive may not be such a bad idea for a page, though it may be too common for examples. I don't think splitting by occupation makes for meaningful subtropes.

I did YKTTW that page (without examples), but it stalled due to a dispute over whether it was covered by Hollywood Homely / Informed Attractiveness.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Hollywood Homely basically is that.

Honestly, if the Stacy's Mom trope is just about going after an older woman in general, I think we have an additional problem in that the trope name and the trope itself don't match up at all. The trope-naming song is literally about someone who wants to get close to someone's mom. If the trope is just about older women, then that's too general for the name it has and a new name is needed pronto.

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

That's a good point.

If Stacy's Mom is just "younger character pursues older character" then the name becomes non-indicative overall (since Mom isn't necessary), and particularly confusing for people who have heard the Trope Namer. The trope that comes to mind when I hear Stacy's Mom would be "friend is attracted to his friend's mother" (in other words, specifying that she's both a mother and mother to an acquaintance of the luster).

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

Huh? That's not what the page says... I don't think you're reading Stacy's Mom.

"In media where the protagonists are somewhere between pre-teens and twenty-somethings, there's usually at least one character older than the other protagonists thrown in. This character is often the Team Mom, The Obi-Wan, etc. Due to Hollywood Homely, they're often also a Hot Mom or Hot Dad. Also known as a MILF, or "Mom I'd Like to Fuck" or as a "cougar." However, men can also play the Stacy's Mom role, as it is not unusual for adolescent girls to be attracted to older men. The crush remains unrequited either permanently or for a significant period of time. If the two get together towards the beginning of the story, then that's Mrs. Robinson. "

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Stacy's Mom is about very young (teens to twenties) characters (of any gender) being attracted to (not courting or "going after") a significantly older character. The (In-Universe) attraction is considered reasonable by some of the (In-Universe) character's peers due to Hollywood Homely. (Dude, she's my mom, doesn't count as disagreement)

edited 19th Sep '13 6:53:49 AM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I am reading Stacy's Mom. And for what it's worth, "being attracted to" and "going after" do not seem all that different for me.

Point taken on Stacy's Mom being a character trope (and my gender reading being wrong), but it still is not mergeable with Hot Mom.

edited 19th Sep '13 7:04:57 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

"Stacy's Mom is not about mums being attractive. It's about very young (Teens to twenties) men going after adult women. It has nothing to do with Hot Mom. You can't merge them"

That is just not true.

Again quoting from the definition of Stacy's Mom:

<quote>This is a character who meets the following requirements:

• Another character, who is a same age friend as one of their own children, or young enough to be their biological child, has a crush on them, fantasizes about the older character, etc.
• Same-age peers of the character with the crush agree that the recipient of the crush is indeed "hot."
• The crush remains unrequited either permanently or for a significant period of time. If the two get together towards the beginning of the story, then that's Mrs. Robinson.</quote>

This describes a crush. Attraction of a younger character to a mom. It does not require "going after" said mom, although it does not preclude it.

Why Hot Mom is not tropeworthy: if Jessica Alba appears in a movie, and plays a mom, and Jessica Alba remains hot, it is not tropeworthy. (Not to mention that the hotness of even Jessica Alba is subjective.) If Jessica Alba is in a movie, and plays a mom, and a character in the film says "damn, Jessica Alba is scorching hot", then it's Stacy's Mom.

edited 19th Sep '13 8:13:26 AM by gallium

^Just noting that @34 points out the same thing. Evidently, I didn't read the description carefully enough.

That said, still no on a merge. Stacy's Mom requires the crushing character to be relatively younger (which means that your Jessica Alba example is not necessarily correct). Hot Mom doesn't. Stacy's Mom is not necessarily a parent. Hot Mom is.

On the tropeworthiness - eh, don't have an opinion yet.

edited 19th Sep '13 8:20:50 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

If Jessica Alba plays a Mom and that character is not portrayed as attractive then it's not Hot Mom. Please stop trying to misrepresent this trope just to prove your point.

Theoretically yes, but in usage (... and based on the description on the page) it's not the case.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

So we rewrite the description to make that clear and clean-up the misusage (mainly zero context examples). There's still a trope here.

First and foremost Informed Attractiveness is not "character says someone is attractive" but it is when they are explicitly stated to be MORE attractive than everyone else. Lets make that clear and understand that is not a requirement of this trope.

Stacy's Mom is a stock plot of adolescent/teenage stories where kids get funny feelings around their friends mom. Mrs. Robinson is when a May/December romance kicks in along this lines.

Hot Mom is where instead of portraying a mother character as being old and haggled because they have kids they are shown as still being quite attractive and can easily dress as a knock-out. That doesn't require an express In-Universe commentary on the matter. That said there should still be some pruning to take out any Real Life examples around the wiki and people jumping to label a 20-something who just had a baby.

Edit: Never mind.

edited 19th Sep '13 10:07:42 AM by Catbert

captain pat, how do you "portray" a character as hot? Does Jessica Alba become a Hot Mom if she puts on a cocktail dress? And how is that a trope, anyway? Is it any different from Jessica Alba putting on a cocktail dress in a movie where she plays a single lady?

Hot Mom, as-is, seems to rely on lampshading.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Fanservice Tropes, Beauty Tropes, or other characters finding her attractive.

As far as the cocktail dress, it would probably depend on how much of her figure it's showing off. The difference between her portraying a single woman been is that it goes against the expectation that mothers are old, haggled, and "used goods".

When talking about this trope please talk about it terms of the character the actress is playing not the actress themselves. See our No Lewdness page.

edited 19th Sep '13 2:33:01 PM by captainpat

I think it's good that Gallium mentioned an actress because that illustrates the problem. If Jessica Alba (or any other actress who is considered attractive - which really covers the vast majority of actresses) plays a mother, that mother would be as attractive as the actress. She might not walk around in an Oscar dress and makeup, but she'll be attractive, tropers will find her attractive and they'll label her as Hot Mom.

On the other hand, if Jessica Alba plays a Mom and looks haggard... THAT's a trope. Haggard Mother. It reflects real life, sure, but its a convention that conveys story info.

That seems less like a problem with the trope and more of problem of how it's being used. We have a page that specifically says to not refer to actors playing the characters.

edited 19th Sep '13 2:58:01 PM by captainpat

1. Stacy's Mom requires the crushing character to be relatively younger (which means that your Jessica Alba example is not necessarily correct). Hot Mom doesn't. Stacy's Mom is not necessarily a parent. Hot Mom is.
   • I concede the point. Hot Mom does have two requirements that separate them. Sister tropes, not super or sub to each other.
2. And for what it's worth, "being attracted to" and "going after" do not seem all that different for me.
   • So the troper on this page is trying to go after Jessica Alba off the wiki? ;)

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Sure, sure, the page itself won't refer to the actress. But if the actress is attractive, the character will be too, unless they've deliberately made her otherwise.

I also don't think "fanservice / beauty tropes" is a specific enough standard for refining this. If dad is attracted to mom, does that make her a Hot Mom? If the main character is a single mom, and she has a romantic plot because all female leads do, is she a Hot Mom?

We need a way to link "hot" and "mom" other than "hot and mom." Staceys Mom has that covered.

Stacy's Mom has - again - additional criteria. An example can fit on both tropes or only one of them. And Stacy's Mom isn't a "hot and mum" trope, really.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman