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Misused: Dead Little Sister
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Misused: Dead Little Sister get usage counts

Should we shorten the description while we're at it? Too many paragraphs as it is. Plus it calls the trope a death trope when it isn't.

edited 20th Feb '13 8:31:10 AM by Arha

 52 Septimus Heap, Wed, 20th Feb '13 8:46:01 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Did the page move. Any description changing will need work from someone better than me.

Tagging now.

Sandbox. I cleaned up the rather confused description, especially the part in the related links where someone decided the trope name was literal.

Done with the redirects. I suggest we cut them all. They confuse people into thinking the trope is literal.

Edit: This is a subtrope of Freudian Excuse isn't it?

edited 20th Feb '13 9:55:26 AM by Arha

 54 Noaqiyeum, Wed, 20th Feb '13 10:27:54 AM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
...I don't think so, but it has some similarities. It definitely goes on the Backstory Index and This Index Has Had a Hard Life.
DRYH
OEOE
NSUA
TTRD
 55 Septimus Heap, Wed, 20th Feb '13 10:34:31 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Ax the redirects. Utterly misleading.

Freudian Excuse - no. That's an excuse for villainy, not cynicism.

Okay, then there's just some overlap. I'll cutlist the redirects now.

Cleaned a handful of examples I'm personally familiar with.

A-Am done as well as all the stuff I was familiar with. Cuts for the old redirects were declined.

 58 Septimus Heap, Thu, 21st Feb '13 9:08:31 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Did X-Z. What is the trope for dead siblings causing you to become evil/do something?

For being simply evil it's Freudian Excuse. For changing your behavior, dunno.

A finished. I think I'll touch up the sandbox to make it clear that a straight villain is not an example. Well Intentioned Extremists and Anti Villains only.

B and C finished. I put in the sandbox and cut the quote.

edited 23rd Feb '13 9:03:39 AM by Arha

D and E finished. I don't know what to do about this and there are a few ghost wicks as well.

 61 Willbyr, Wed, 27th Feb '13 7:48:12 PM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
[up] Bing Translator rendered "Catalizzatore di cinismo".
 62 Noaqiyeum, Wed, 27th Feb '13 8:46:34 PM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
Bring it up in the Translation forum?
DRYH
OEOE
NSUA
TTRD
 63 Septimus Heap, Thu, 28th Feb '13 12:53:09 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
@61 is correct.

F done, fixed that Italian wick thing.

 65 Septimus Heap, Sun, 3rd Mar '13 2:53:10 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Finished T. Now only 713 wicks to go.

 66 Septimus Heap, Mon, 4th Mar '13 1:04:14 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Did P-S, now only 318 wicks to go.

 67 X Fllo, Mon, 4th Mar '13 1:32:51 PM Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
The examples will require a re-write. There are too many mentions of somebody's "literal dead little sister" or his dead little sister substitute. I'd be happy to take care of the examples I am familiar with.

 68 Septimus Heap, Tue, 5th Mar '13 2:29:24 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Did the last 336 or so wicks, except for a few ghost and archive ones.

Sometimes, the example fit better under Freudian Excuse, Replacement Goldfish or other tropes, then I switched it out.

Now only page example cleanup remains.

edited 5th Mar '13 2:30:46 PM by SeptimusHeap

 69 X Fllo, Tue, 5th Mar '13 4:44:34 PM Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
[up] I started the major clean-up of the page. I went through sections Anime, Comic Books and Animated films. I removed questionable entries, moving them into the discussion for the trope page.

Most were Zero Context Examples, or taking the dead little sister literally without mentioning how it influenced the characters, or attempts to be Played With examples of taking the former trope name Dead Little Sister literally.

I might continue with the editing tomorrow.

  • EDIT: Now I am done with the Live Action Films. Might continue later.
  • EDIT: I went through Literature examples. Other media still need attention.

It's a much harder task than I imagined. I moved questionable entries and Zero-Context Example into the discussion. Somebody might check them to see if I do the job right. Link.

edited 14th Mar '13 5:28:45 PM by XFllo

 70 Septimus Heap, Sat, 16th Mar '13 7:40:38 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Did some further cleaning. Anything missing?

 71 X Fllo, Sat, 16th Mar '13 6:24:24 PM Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
I have some issues with a few Real Life examples. Generally, the examples do not state whether the event made the people more cynical. I still feel the literal interpretation of the original name in them. For instance those two, but there are more examples like that:

  • The little sister of Evanescence's front singer Amy Lee died when she was three, and the songs "Hello" and "Like You" were written about her.
  • Back Street Boys's song "Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely" is dedicated to Howard "Howie D" Dorough's deceased older sister, who perished a year before the song was released; she's represented by the Lady in Red who, in the video, runs towards him and fades away.

edited 16th Mar '13 7:06:45 PM by XFllo

 72 X Fllo, Sat, 16th Mar '13 6:38:40 PM Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
This is confusing. Not to mention if it has several played-with examples, they should be listed separately and explained.

  • In Dragon Age II, depending on how Hawke is played, personality wise, this can be played straight, averted or invoked, both from the beginning what with Bethany or Carver dying in the prologue, and the Deep Roads expedition leading to your other sibling dying, becoming a Grey Warden or joining the Circle/Templars and All That Remains in Act II where your mother dies. Even without taking into account the other things that can occur to Hawke and companions throughout the game, is it any wonder an otherwise helpful and heroic, or wisecracking and jovial Hawke can become an angry cynic over the course of the game.
    • Several of Hawke's companions have their own. Aveline has her husband Wesley, whom either she or Hawke kills in the prologue to save him from the darkspawn taint. Anders has Karl, his ex-lover, who was made Tranquil by the Templars. Sebastian has his entire family, who were murdered by hired thugs and eventually his mentor Grand Cleric Elthina, whose murder reawakens his lust for vengeance. Varric has his older brother Bartrand, who betrays him and whom he's forced to kill. Merrill eventually has her mentor, Keeper Marethari, who dies protecting her, as well as potentially her whole clan. Knight-Commander Meredith, the closest thing the game has to a main villain, has a textbook dead sister as part of her backstory - her mage sister was possessed by a demon who killed their parents and wiped out their village, leading her to become the most fanatical Templar yet seen.

  • ''Metal Gear Solid 2':
    • Not just double, but triple inverted in Metal Gear Solid with Gray Fox. Not only is he the brother of Naomi and older than her, he's also not as dead as everyone had thought. His almost killing by Solid Snake and the experiments made on him by the Patriots are the reason Naomi joins Ocelot and infiltrates FOXHOUND.

Triple inverted? Really? evil grin Taking the name too literally and it doesn't state whether he's a cynical loner.

edited 16th Mar '13 7:07:27 PM by XFllo

 73 X Fllo, Sat, 16th Mar '13 7:04:08 PM Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
This one is also taking the former name literally, but the character might have some other traumatic event that made him cynical.

  • Angel:
    • Inverted by Angel himself. One of the first things he did after being turned into a vampire was return home and murder his little sister. Well, after terrorizing the town a little, but she still trusted her brother Liam enough to let him in. Oddly, despite having clearly been rather close with her, Angel displays no issues one way or the other regarding little girls.


Also, I removed these wicks but I'd like to ask about them.

  • In Million Dollar Baby, Frankie Dunn is estranged from his daughter which leads to him first going to church on a regular basis (though he often irritates the minister by asking questions like "was Jesus a demi-god?") and later seeing Maggie Fitzgerald as a surrogate daughter.
    • Does this make him a cynic in the sense of having morally dubious methods or becoming a broody loner? I remember the backstory just very vaguely. Perhaps if the example states what caused the estrangement between him and his daughter, it would be OK.

  • In both versions of Footloose, Reverend Shaw's son getting killed in a car accident led to him leading a town-wide campaign against dancing and secular music.
    • Troper's willthiswork's comment: I think that one is ok. He hates music and will not allow dances because dance is evil or whatever. IDK how to explain it, but I think it counts.

edited 16th Mar '13 7:10:02 PM by XFllo

 74 Septimus Heap, Mon, 18th Mar '13 9:12:08 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Well, these RL examples about songs would be better off in a Music folder. I would move them to discussion as a song name alone doesn't say "Cynicism" to me.

Million Dollar Baby is a bad example.

 75 X Fllo, Mon, 1st Apr '13 8:18:36 AM Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
I think it might be about done.

Alternative Titles: Dead Little Sister
18th Feb '13 6:15:34 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the name will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of Crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative names.
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