Privilege in transcultural writing?

No, I'm not. A great many are American. Aren't they privileged compared to people like the Palestinians? Or Nigerians? Or Libyans?

The idea that a group is never privileged is simply idiotic.

edited 15th Oct '12 6:00:47 AM by InverurieJones

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'

And there are Iranian Jews, Ethiopian Jews... pretty much if there's a place there's Jews in it.

I'm not saying that a group is never privileged, I think that using Jews as a group that is always privileged is a particularly poor choice. Using religions in general to discuss global privilege is a terrible idea because the conditions for any given religion around the world are so variable.

edited 15th Oct '12 7:02:07 AM by ohsointocats

Pretty much every group in most western countries has some sort of privilege, especially in America.

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com

I'd agree with that.

@Oh So Into Cats: Are you Israeli or American or from some other country?

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

And why does that matter in this particular context, pray tell?

Just curious.

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

This, simply enough. It's really insulting and stupid to say that someone is "more privileged" simply because they are part of a given religion, particularly if that religion is a minority with a history of being the brunt of persecution. Sure, Americans in general are privileged compared to most people on this planet, but being Jewish doesn't really make you any more or less privileged given that context. In the context of Israel? Yes. In America? No. In Yemen or Iran? Like hell...

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

In a way, EVERYONE is privileged if they live in the First World. So what does this mean in the case of transcultural writing?

edited 18th Oct '12 1:11:01 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Technobabble is boring and insulting to your intelligence if you want to see/watch a good story. It's downright demeaning if you know anything about the science involved. SfDebris points this out in his reviews of ST:Voyager and ST:Next Gen. Now imagine how someone from a culture being insulted must feel? George Lucas didn't think that his characters in the prequels would be Space Jews until it was pointed out to him. Lucas toned them down as best he could (for Lucas). The Unfortunate Implications didn't sink in for most Star Trek writers until Enterprise tanked in the ratings.

Some cultural aspects are serious business that is not to be mentioned by outsiders. It's a culture that's a part of people's lives. Egyptian and Norse mythology gets used a lot because no one would get offended (aside from scholars).

Consider the following: "It's like in the Bible, when Cain slew his brother Isaac over thirty pieces of silver and God made him stay in the belly of a snake until the second coming of Noah."—SfDebris makes fun of the faux-Christian symbolism in Evangelion 2.22

I loved Evangelion, but I can see where the creepy cool crosses would offend Christians. Even some hardcore American otaku were put off by it (see JesuOtaku's Eva review).

Privilege is being unable to see that saying something like the "second coming of Noah" bit above, with a strait face. Even when creating something fictional that mirrors some real world culture, respect is important. Avatar: The Last Airbender is a good example.

edited 19th Oct '12 11:31:34 PM by TairaMai

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48

An example of what to do in tackling this issue?

edited 20th Oct '12 2:47:50 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Research, Research, Research.

Don't just borrow a name, find out the meaning behind it. Tv shows and even toy lines have gotten into major trouble for using the name of a god or historical figure thinking "cool name" and not realizing they were making real people mad.

• Americans Hate Tingle for a reason, what is cool/sucky in one culture is the opposite in the other.

• Germans Love David Hasselhoff because something will catch on, even if it's taken out of context. Or the work cuts through cultural barriers. You never know.

Treat other cultures the way you want yours to be treated. It may be a cool sounding name to you, it's sacred or serious business to someone else.

Listen.

Opinions are like armpits, everyone's got'em and they usually stink. When someone says that X in your work offends them and can back it up with real reasons, you should listen. Have someone else read your work. Half the drek the media puts out is due to Protection from Editors or creators who honestly think they can do no wrong. If mroe than one person talks to you and says the name, event, plot point etc is offensive or insensitive, change it.

edited 29th Oct '12 3:11:33 AM by TairaMai

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48

@Taira: You mean like those bikinis with the Lakshmi image on them? I couldn't convince my mum of the reason I felt them to be offensive.

edited 29th Oct '12 4:08:41 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Yeah. A "cool image" isn't cool if it's put on underwear/swimwear. It's downright offensive if it's a GOD that's part of a people's religion.

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48

@Taira: AND MY FAMILY IS MALAYSIAN CHINESE. Does this compute? No, it doesn't.

edited 4th Nov '12 3:34:16 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Sadly, no matter what you do, if you're writing about a culture or experience to which you are an outsider, someone from inside that culture/experience encountering your work will likely find something in it to which they can justifiably say "you don't know what you're talking about." You shouldn't let that stop you, though. If one treats one's characters with respect and refrains from judgement or condescension, I think that's enough.

Tony Hillerman got flack from many in the Navaho community, since his books are set in their culture. His Mysteries are steeped in their culture but he was a white guy from Oklahoma. He treated them with respect and brought their culture to the mainstream. Unlike many in Hollywood, he cared.

edited 5th Nov '12 12:41:29 AM by TairaMai

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48

@Robbery: Or you could get lucky, and not get called out at all. Which would be lucky. Even if it's your culture, someone is bound to call it out.

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien