Unclear Description: The Heavy

The Heavy as-is can also include The Dragon. If The Dragon can be the Big Bad as well, then Big Bad and The Heavy are duplicates.

Villains Act, Heroes React is a plot trope. This is a character trope.

None of these things are even remotely Chairs.

I was thinking perhaps Chief Antagonist / Antagonist In Chief (like how there is Dragon-in-Chief) ?

Both of those would be easily confusable with Big Bad.

The Big Bad is the one who is behind it all. The Dragon is the villainous equivalent of The Lancer. The Heavy is the primary antagonist the heroes face. He can be the Big Bad, The Dragon, or even someone further down the totem pole. Something like Primary Antagonist or Main Threat might cover it (though I'm not excited by those names).

What I mean by a Chair is that it, as written, it doesn't seem to be a very significant trope. It's just "this is the antagonist of the story." The definition should be made more specific, and the trope should be renamed.

That still has nothing to do with Chairs. And it's not "antagonist".

Calling for a rename.

@55: "Every story has an antagonist" would be Omnipresent Trope territory — it's hard to have a story without some kind of antagonist, much like trying to have one without some form of protagonist. It's a role of the storytelling itself — a very broad, high-level trope that can encompass a wide range of specific characters (Big Bad, The Dragon, etc.) but that does not make it less of a trope.

The Antagonist, in fact.

...wow. So does that mean The Heavy = The Antagonist, The Heavy = The Antagonist But More Specific, or what?

edited 7th Feb '13 12:09:37 PM by Stratadrake

The Antagonist is "the opposite to The Protagonist", per its description.

...not exactly the question I was asking...

I recall from past TRS'es that the definitions of protagonist and antagonist aren't exactly easy, and I can't tell the definitions here and now either.

Hmm, one problem I have with most of the suggestions so far (including mine, which is currently leading in the poll) is that this seems to be a villain trope, while antagonist doesn't necessarily imply villain any more than protagonist implies here.

I admit to occasional lumper tendencies, but I think we may be in danger of lumping too much into this one if we go with any of these names.

eta: Main Villain sounds too much like the Big Bad, so I'm not entirely sure what to suggest.

edited 7th Feb '13 2:54:42 PM by Xtifr

Of all these suggestions, Spotlight Antagonist seems to be the closest to what we're looking for, but I still think we can do better.

Maybe Plot Enacting Villain? Plot Enactor? Hopefully we can get somewhere.

I don't like the name Spotlight Villain because it sounds too much like the Arc Villain. And even if the Big Bad tends to be th most likely candidate, the trope as described can also apply to the Dragon Ascendant or The Man Behind the Man.

Honestly I think Plot Driving Villain describes it best.

edited 13th Mar '13 6:19:00 PM by Lionheart0

Bumping for more votes.

For the difference between Villain and Antagonist, look at the examples on The Hollywood Formula.

None of the names have a satisfactory ratio.

I also don't think any of the names are particularly good. And I even came up with one of them.

This is simply a character-based extension of Villains Act, Heroes React. Thus it is a duplicate trope, and an omnipresent one at that, and therefore I strongly recommend cutting it.

Villains Act, Heroes React is omnipresent? O_o No it isn't. That's rather fandom-myopic...

Wait, how am I acting like a myopic fan?

Anyway, the nature of villains taking action and heroes reacting to said actions is not a hard rule but it is a common occurrence in most man vs man plots of fiction. To quote the article on the subject: "This trope is much too broad for examples. Try the subtropes instead." As I argue that The Heavy is simply a character-based extension of this, the article should be cut.

Villains Act, Heroes React is clearly listed under Omnipresent Tropes. And you clearly have no idea what Fan Myopia is if you're using the term like that.

No. That's like saying we should cut Invincible Hero for being a character-based extension of The Good Guys Always Win.

Um, no. Why Invincible Hero should stay and The Heavy should go is because Invincible Hero refers to a specific type of Good Guy Who Always Wins (one that never looses in any point of tension throughout the conflict) while The Heavy is any villain who drives the plot. In other words, while The Good Guys Always Win is an omnipresent trope, it does not mean Invincible Hero is present whereas if Villains Act Heroes React is present The Heavy is also present.

edited 15th Apr '13 5:52:26 PM by EditorPallMall

Not true. If Mysterious Dude in Big Chair has some master plan and only shows up on screen once every thirty minutes to give an order to the next in a line of enforcers, Villains Act, Heroes React is in full effect, but The Heavy is not present: there is no screen-dominating presence amongst the villains. The enforcers never stick around long enough, but the Big Bad just isn't around. To take a different scenario, constant pursuit by the villains could keep the heroes continually running away without the villains having much direct screen presence. Again, Villains Act, Heroes React, but no Heavy.