Needs Help: Thou Shalt Not Kill

This trope is about fictional characters in general who have an explicit code against killing other people, even incredibly evil and dangerous villains. However, the trope description is pretty much solely about comic book superheroes, despite the examples coming from a wide range of mediums and genres.

Anyone else in favor of completely rewriting the description, with maybe some of the history about this trope's usage in comic books moved to the Comic Books example folder?

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko

Clock is set.

Agree that the definition should be less comic-book specific.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

What's different between this and Even Evil Has Standards?

This: A code of honor to not kill no matter what. Even Evil Has Standards: You may be a homicidal murdering maniac, but stealing candy from babies? THAT'S LOW.

I actually think it might be worth splitting off Superheroes Dont Kill as a subtrope, simply because it tends to be so common throughout the genre.

Um, this can (and does) apply to non-villains, and is specifically about murder, and the other is specifically about villains, and doesn't necessarily apply to murder?

They're related, I'll grant you that.

edited 18th Jul '12 2:44:52 PM by Xtifr

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^^ That would just be Thou Shall Not Kill BUT IT'S A SUPERHERO!

I will admit that this tends to be a bigger deal in superhero comics, while people in other genres and mediums tend to be Technical Pacifists.

This trope has its roots in when we were expanding into random mediums based on what interests were present on the wiki. Comic Books were one of the earlier ones and this was one of the pages resulting from that effort.

The thing is, this is so common in the Super Hero genre that characters are assumed to have it unless not doing so is part of their unique schtick. Unless we restrict the superhero examples to just significant ones, we'd probably need to push them onto their own page anyway due to page length issues.

Hello nobody here, just saw something that bothered me. The opinions of the Troper is blatant in the page. It is obvious he/she feels that the having a Thou Shalt Not Kill policy is something to be derided and mocked as idiotic.

edited 4th Sep '12 7:19:08 PM by KageNara

The description is also way too long. We don't need a essay on the subject; we need a description of the trope. And the essay is mostly about the history of comic books, not the trope, or I'd suggest moving most of it to the analysis tab.

Here's a first stab:

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Ending a life is usually a permanent thing. There's no way to say "I'm sorry", or to make up for it later. And for some people, killing is a line they will not cross, no matter how much the death might serve the greater good (or, in some cases, the greater evil). "He needed killing" is not in these people's vocabulary.

This is common in works with Black-and-White Morality, but even appears in works with Grey-and-Gray Morality. In the latter, it's sometimes the only way to tell the "good" guys from the "bad" guys.

Opinions differ on how this applies to sentient life other than humans. In general, it's still up to Big Damn Villains to kill other villains. It's perfectly fine to "kill" immortals though as it is to kill the undead. The Mercy Kill sometimes winds up as an exception. Karmic Death, Self-Disposing Villain, and Hoist by His Own Petard provide alternate ways to kill off villains without forcing the hero to get his hands dirty.

Thou Shalt Not Kill is closely related to Joker Immunity. Whilst many writers believe a never-kill creed makes the hero more likable and righteous, on another level it might simply be a plot device to prevent the hero from killing off popular recurring villains. This trope is more common in serial fiction, such as TV shows and comic books, rather than one-shots like movies. In action movies it is common and acceptable for the hero to kill the villain because there is usually no planned sequel for the villain to appear in.

Whatever the moral case is, this trope is often used to show off the hero's incredible precision, whether it be with a fist or a gun. This can include things like separating the mook from their weapon with a precisely aimed bullet, or possibly knocking an opponent out. Whatever the case, their non-lethal attacks are due to their incredible skill. Note that this often a case of Reality Is Unrealistic as many of these attacks are very capable of causing serious injury or death.

See also Kick Them While They Are Down, Actual Pacifist, Reckless Pacifist, Technical Pacifist, Non-Lethal Warfare, Would Not Shoot a Good Guy.

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The third paragraph is adapted from the original, and the last two paragraphs and the "see also" line are kept unchanged.

edited 13th Sep '12 2:15:30 PM by Xtifr

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So far, so good. It may be a "first stab", but it's still very well-written. However, I would add references to Karmic Death and Hoist by His Own Petard, which are often used to kill villians while keeping the hero's hands clean.

"But... nobody told me I needed a signature!"

Sounds good. Added.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Thanks! And here's something I should have added before: I'd recommend keeping the original article's reference to Self-Disposing Villain, which is definitely a relevant trope here.

"But... nobody told me I needed a signature!"

Added a reference to that trope as well.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Bumping for more feedback on my draft above. If no one has any further suggestions, or criticisms or complaints, I'll go ahead and swap this in sometime in the next couple of days.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

I say post it!

One little edit, I'd change "causing serious injury or killing a person" to "causing serious injury or death"

edited 13th Sep '12 7:32:46 AM by Escher

Done. (That was in the original, but I agree that your wording is an improvement.)

Anything else? Anyone? Last call, unless someone raises an issue that needs deeper discussion.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

New description installed. Was there anything else to do, or can we close this?

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

I also adjusted the laconic, changing "Heroes" to "Characters". The Playing With page is still all super-hero examples, but that may be ok, unless someone really feels compelled to change it.

eta: I was tempted to make the laconic just say, "words to live by", but managed to restrain myself. :)

edited 15th Sep '12 4:40:58 PM by Xtifr

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No further comments suggests this is done. Calling for a lock.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Nice work. Locking up.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.