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Misused: All Myths Are True
Deadlock Clock: 1st Feb '14 11:59 PM
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Misused: All Myths Are True get usage counts

 251 johnnye, Sun, 29th Sep '13 5:15:35 AM from Brighton, UK Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
Could we write up the disambiguation guidelines at the top of the Sandbox page to help people decide where to put stuff?

The way I understand it (please correct if wrong)
  • Fantasy Kitchen Sink: All our real-world myths are true
  • Crossover Cosmology: ...Um. More than one religion is true at the same time, but they're still considered separate pantheons? Not really clear on this one, could do with a Laconic page.
  • A Mythology Is True: One myth/one coherent set of real-world myths is true
  • Legend Of Chekhov: Any myth described in-universe will turn out to be true.
  • One Myth to Explain Them All: Only one real-world myth is genuinely true; any other paranormal phenomena are somehow explained by that one.

Anything to add to that?

edited 29th Sep '13 5:35:16 AM by johnnye

Zaldrīzes buzdari iksos daor, so Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus.
 252 Troacctid, Sun, 29th Sep '13 10:15:48 AM from California
I would argue again that some amount of overlap between All Myths Are True and Fantasy Kitchen Sink is expected and desired.

Did we already talk about the dictionary definition of "kitchen sink" explicitly referring to unnecessary elements and usage in informal or humorous contexts? I can't remember if we did, but that should be pretty important, given that it's a nice clear distinction that's right there in the title.

edited 29th Sep '13 10:20:10 AM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
 253 johnnye, Sun, 29th Sep '13 1:11:16 PM from Brighton, UK Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
[up]What do you mean, overlap? I thought it has been agreed that AMAT was going to be a disambiguation page, not a trope at all.
Zaldrīzes buzdari iksos daor, so Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus.
 254 Troacctid, Mon, 30th Sep '13 9:18:32 AM from California
We never settled on that action. We did agree to see what it looked like without the examples that duplicated other tropes, then decide what to do with what was left; but examples overlapping with Fantasy Kitchen Sink shouldn't be removed for that analysis, though, because they're not mutually exclusive and we expect them to overlap.

Main point of contention is the similarity with Fantasy Kitchen Sink. If we identify a clear distinction between them, then they can coexist in peace.

[down] See previous post [up][up]

edited 5th Oct '13 12:44:49 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
 255 Septimus Heap, Sat, 5th Oct '13 2:08:47 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
And that distinction would be...? I am not clear on what to define All Myths Are True as.

 256 johnnye, Sun, 6th Oct '13 5:17:46 PM from Brighton, UK Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
"Kitchen sink" is a humorous phrase, but that doesn't say anything to the context of what it's describing. "Do you know what the deceased was attacked with?" "From the looks of it, everything but the kitchen sink" — humour applied to a distinctly unhumorous situation. (Even if we were to accept that distinction, it sounds suspiciously like "The Same But Played for Laughs").

What the phrase means is "figuratively everything"; there would (arguably) be a distinction if AMAT were to mean literally all myths are true (A Sandman-style "every single myth is true somewhere, as a natural law of the story's 'verse"), but it's never meant that and very few of the examples on the page are talking about that.
Zaldrīzes buzdari iksos daor, so Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus.
 257 Willbyr, Thu, 7th Nov '13 6:34:17 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
Clock is set.
So what hasn't been done with the crowner results?

 259 Troacctid, Sat, 9th Nov '13 12:45:35 AM from California
I've deleted the offending line in the description. Haven't looked at the examples yet, probably still some to move to the new trope.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 260 Troacctid, Thu, 21st Nov '13 1:34:07 AM from California
Had a go at the description over in the sandbox. Hopefully it's not contentious.

I kind of like swapping the page quote for either Nick Fury or Heavenly Nostrils. The current one is a bit vague out of context.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 261 Septimus Heap, Thu, 21st Nov '13 1:36:44 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Contentious no, but I don't really get a definition from that sandbox.

 262 johnnye, Thu, 21st Nov '13 2:45:43 AM from Brighton, UK Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
I'm still not seeing a distinction from Fantasy Kitchen Sink.

"if enough disparate myths cram themselves in all at once, the setting can become a Fantasy Kitchen Sink." — this just sounds like The Same but More.

(For clarification, I'm not saying "someone should work out what that is". I think they're the same thing and one of them should be stripped down to a disambig page.)

edited 21st Nov '13 2:47:21 AM by johnnye

Zaldrīzes buzdari iksos daor, so Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus.
 263 Willbyr, Sat, 21st Dec '13 6:52:11 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
New clock's set.
It seems that the top crowner option (delete the controversial part of the definition, move examples of that definition to The Legend of Chekhov) has been done. Has it? Because if so, we can lock this up.
 265 Septimus Heap, Sat, 21st Dec '13 11:58:51 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
No, All Myths Are True still has the uncleaned examples. The previous discussion (after the crowner) decided to disambiguate the page.

 266 Marq FJA, Sun, 29th Dec '13 3:48:33 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Gah, should've kept better tabs on this thread after my last post on Page 1. Can someone summarize the conclusions that this thread has reached so far?
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 267 Troacctid, Sun, 29th Dec '13 10:27:09 AM from California
Crowner results show a clear lack of consensus for merging or renaming. The option that got a consensus was to get all the Legend Of Chekhov stuff over to the Legend Of Chekhov page.

Disambiguation was suggested, but wasn't voted on and didn't get any obvious consensus in the discussion. The main line of action we were looking at was something "Let's have a look at the examples and figure out what's going on here, maybe re-YKTTW it, " suggested by Noaqiyeum about 8 months ago. Examples got poked through and moved around a bit to more specific tropes where appropriate. Then Septimus Heap, Morgan Wick, and johnnye did some brainstorming, but there was never any agreement on what exactly to do from there and nothing really came of it.

After that the thread stalled for several months without any discussion. Then a clock was set. Then the description was finally changed per the crowner, although the examples still haven't gotten their sorting. Then I tried writing up a prospective new description in the sandbox, but it turns out it's a really hard trope to describe. Then the clock ran out.

Then a new clock was set. Then Discar asked if we were done. Then Septimus Heap said we aren't. And then nothing happened, and the clock ran out, again.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 268 Marq FJA, Sun, 29th Dec '13 11:18:56 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
OK, so what is All Myths Are True supposed to be defined as now, then? I think you guys missed the Laconic subpage when you changed the description.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 269 Willbyr, Wed, 29th Jan '14 4:11:49 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
I'm reclocking this one last time.
 270 Marq FJA, Wed, 29th Jan '14 4:55:53 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Right. So we still need to finalize the clarification of the definition (namely, the laconic definition appears to have been missed), clean up the examples and move the good ones to The Legend of Chekhov, then disambiguate the page.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 271 Willbyr, Sun, 2nd Mar '14 8:26:34 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
Has anything been done here?
 272 Marq FJA, Sun, 2nd Mar '14 8:33:39 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
AFAIK, nothing.

PS: If you're locking this, I wish to note that we need a way to distinguish between "closed because we've completed the objective" and "closed due to lack of conclusion/stagnation".

edited 2nd Mar '14 8:34:44 AM by MarqFJA

Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 273 Willbyr, Wed, 2nd Apr '14 5:55:50 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
It's been another month since the last post, so I'd say this is dead in the water. Locking for inactivity.

edited 2nd Apr '14 5:56:06 AM by Willbyr

The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
You need to Get Known to get one of those.

Page Action: All Myths Are True
14th Jun '12 5:40:04 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
All Myths Are True is being misused as "real world myths are used in a work", while it really is about a myth turning out to be true after mentioned in-universe.
Total posts: 273
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