Misused: All Myths Are True

Could we write up the disambiguation guidelines at the top of the Sandbox page to help people decide where to put stuff?

The way I understand it (please correct if wrong)

• Fantasy Kitchen Sink: All our real-world myths are true
• Crossover Cosmology: ...Um. More than one religion is true at the same time, but they're still considered separate pantheons? Not really clear on this one, could do with a Laconic page.
• A Mythology Is True: One myth/one coherent set of real-world myths is true
• Legend Of Chekhov: Any myth described in-universe will turn out to be true.
• One Myth to Explain Them All: Only one real-world myth is genuinely true; any other paranormal phenomena are somehow explained by that one.

Anything to add to that?

edited 29th Sep '13 5:35:16 AM by johnnye

I would argue again that some amount of overlap between All Myths Are True and Fantasy Kitchen Sink is expected and desired.

Did we already talk about the dictionary definition of "kitchen sink" explicitly referring to unnecessary elements and usage in informal or humorous contexts? I can't remember if we did, but that should be pretty important, given that it's a nice clear distinction that's right there in the title.

edited 29th Sep '13 10:20:10 AM by troacctid

What do you mean, overlap? I thought it has been agreed that AMAT was going to be a disambiguation page, not a trope at all.

We never settled on that action. We did agree to see what it looked like without the examples that duplicated other tropes, then decide what to do with what was left; but examples overlapping with Fantasy Kitchen Sink shouldn't be removed for that analysis, though, because they're not mutually exclusive and we expect them to overlap.

Main point of contention is the similarity with Fantasy Kitchen Sink. If we identify a clear distinction between them, then they can coexist in peace.

See previous post

edited 5th Oct '13 12:44:49 PM by troacctid

And that distinction would be...? I am not clear on what to define All Myths Are True as.

"Kitchen sink" is a humorous phrase, but that doesn't say anything to the context of what it's describing. "Do you know what the deceased was attacked with?" "From the looks of it, everything but the kitchen sink" — humour applied to a distinctly unhumorous situation. (Even if we were to accept that distinction, it sounds suspiciously like "The Same But Played for Laughs").

What the phrase means is "figuratively everything"; there would (arguably) be a distinction if AMAT were to mean literally all myths are true (A Sandman-style "every single myth is true somewhere, as a natural law of the story's 'verse"), but it's never meant that and very few of the examples on the page are talking about that.

Clock is set.

So what hasn't been done with the crowner results?

I've deleted the offending line in the description. Haven't looked at the examples yet, probably still some to move to the new trope.

Had a go at the description over in the sandbox. Hopefully it's not contentious.

I kind of like swapping the page quote for either Nick Fury or Heavenly Nostrils. The current one is a bit vague out of context.

Contentious no, but I don't really get a definition from that sandbox.

I'm still not seeing a distinction from Fantasy Kitchen Sink.

"if enough disparate myths cram themselves in all at once, the setting can become a Fantasy Kitchen Sink." — this just sounds like The Same But More.

(For clarification, I'm not saying "someone should work out what that is". I think they're the same thing and one of them should be stripped down to a disambig page.)

edited 21st Nov '13 2:47:21 AM by johnnye

New clock's set.

It seems that the top crowner option (delete the controversial part of the definition, move examples of that definition to The Legend of Chekhov) has been done. Has it? Because if so, we can lock this up.

No, All Myths Are True still has the uncleaned examples. The previous discussion (after the crowner) decided to disambiguate the page.

Gah, should've kept better tabs on this thread after my last post on Page 1. Can someone summarize the conclusions that this thread has reached so far?

Crowner results show a clear lack of consensus for merging or renaming. The option that got a consensus was to get all the Legend Of Chekhov stuff over to the Legend Of Chekhov page.

Disambiguation was suggested, but wasn't voted on and didn't get any obvious consensus in the discussion. The main line of action we were looking at was something "Let's have a look at the examples and figure out what's going on here, maybe re-YKTTW it," suggested by Noaqiyeum about 8 months ago. Examples got poked through and moved around a bit to more specific tropes where appropriate. Then Septimus Heap, Morgan Wick, and johnnye did some brainstorming, but there was never any agreement on what exactly to do from there and nothing really came of it.

After that the thread stalled for several months without any discussion. Then a clock was set. Then the description was finally changed per the crowner, although the examples still haven't gotten their sorting. Then I tried writing up a prospective new description in the sandbox, but it turns out it's a really hard trope to describe. Then the clock ran out.

Then a new clock was set. Then Discar asked if we were done. Then Septimus Heap said we aren't. And then nothing happened, and the clock ran out, again.

OK, so what is All Myths Are True supposed to be defined as now, then? I think you guys missed the Laconic subpage when you changed the description.

I'm reclocking this one last time.

Right. So we still need to finalize the clarification of the definition (namely, the laconic definition appears to have been missed), clean up the examples and move the good ones to The Legend of Chekhov, then disambiguate the page.

Has anything been done here?

AFAIK, nothing.

PS: If you're locking this, I wish to note that we need a way to distinguish between "closed because we've completed the objective" and "closed due to lack of conclusion/stagnation".

edited 2nd Mar '14 8:34:44 AM by MarqFJA

It's been another month since the last post, so I'd say this is dead in the water. Locking for inactivity.

edited 2nd Apr '14 5:56:06 AM by Willbyr