Real Life section maintenance (New Crowner 19 Feb 2024)

Dumb Muscle probably has less reason for real-life examples than Insufferable Genius did. For one thing, intelligence is easier to prove than lack thereof. Also, the former's positive trait is considered a fairly superficial one, while the latter's is considered more meaningful.

edited 24th Sep '12 5:36:00 PM by HiddenFacedMatt

I'm thinking that some of the Music examples for Flanderization skirt too close to Real Life. Anyone want to take a look?

edited 24th Sep '12 5:56:34 PM by reub2000

Erk, I see what you mean. There are still some valid ones there, though (the first Beatles one, at least), and I'm not sure whether they should all be cut.

edited 25th Sep '12 4:41:01 AM by DoktorvonEurotrash

Also, what is fan-flanderization? Whatever it is, it's a viewer reaction and not a trope.

I'd like to nominate Empire with a Dark Secret for the NRLEP treatment - probably the only reason it isn't any worse right now is that it's not a very well-linked page.

^ There's no "nomination", just add it if you think it's appropriate to be NRLEPed. Posting that it was added would be nice, though, particularly if it includes a reason why you think it should be set NRLEP.

As for the RL section of EWADS, the only entry that was a problem before the edit I just finished is the last one, and I'm not saying that because it's about the US. The rest seem fairly well restrained, once wiki formatting guidelines were applied. As such, I'm not going to add the entry myself.

NRLEP listing isn't for "might possibly cause problems in the future", but that there's a real problem that could lead to edit wars.

And speaking of additions, I'm adding Evil Only Has to Win Once to the crowner. Like with the other "evil" tropes already listed, TV Tropes isn't here for calling Real Life people evil.

Tr-tr-triple post!

Calling Dumb Muscle: 14:1 yes/no, added 24th Sep '12 at 04:53:25 PM

On the Evil Only Has to Win Once page, some entries should definitely go, but there are a few about leaders using this very phrasing. We could keep them if the speech in question casts the other side as evil (by this standard, the infamous IRA statement would go).

I move that Pedophile Priest will be given a NRLEP! tag. It does not have an RL section, and I don't think we need one — it's the same problem as Pædo Hunt.

It already is NRLEP. It's in the index, and the warning is in the source code.

edited 30th Sep '12 11:24:27 PM by lu127

Ah. It does lack a visible warning, though, so I'll go ahead and add that.

It seems that, from now on, warnings are to be only in the code, not the page, because the No Real Life Examples warning is only important for those who want to edit the page, not those who just want to read it. So rather than add warnings, we should be removing existing ones. <.<

Ah, that is the case. I'll remove the visible warning.

The code [[noreallife]] marks a page as NRLEP. (It displays a message where the editing tips would normally be.

Also, this trope is controversial in RL? It seems like most of the accusations being made are well founded.

edited 1st Oct '12 4:13:21 AM by reub2000

It already has a NRLEP! warning in its code, so the discussion is pretty much moot.

The tag has nothing to do with truth or falsehood of the Real Life section; it has to do with the Flame Bait potential.

Well, if it's pretty clear cut what happened, then where is the flaimbait?

^Because it's a controversial topic. In these situations, whether something is factual will be contested, even if it is factual.

As a simple rule: this wiki is not the place for such topics. The Other Wiki has pages of procedures and discussion for any such controversy, we don't have the resources or the will to adopt them.

Calling Evil Only Has to Win Once

8.50:1 yes:no, added 28th Sep '12 at 03:27PM]

Sliding Scale of Villain Threat mentions World War II.

I'd like to propose cutting Permanently Elected Official and The Empire off the list and re-adding what they previously had, albeit with a closer watch.

The Empire prior to the cut had a sterling and almost scholarly (for us) list of historical empires and superpowers that all but completely avoided controversy and natter from what I could see. I highly doubt that section added anything but good to the section and by extent the site.

Secondly, the justification cited for Permanently Elected Official is absolutely, unforgivably *BAD* and inaccurate. If anything, it's probably hypocritical in doing exactly what it condemns plenty of other articles for doing: calling people evil, and as an amateur historian it is shamefully wrong. For one, there are plenty of Political Long-Runners who served vast terms (when not subjected to term limits). For one, John Howard of Australia lasted 11 years in office before being voted out, as . And even if we denied him that on the basis that he was eventually defeated and thrown out of office in a fair electoral campaign, there are plenty of others that could be counted due to only leaving office by retiring or due to death. Eamon de Valera, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Henry Clay, William Gladstone, Benjamin Disraeli and Luxembourg's Paul Eyschen. Yes, it's true that some of them did lose elections for the top spot (particularly Gladstone and Disraeli) but at now point did they actually stop being elected officials. As a moment of disclosure, I must admit I am not overly fond of Valera, Roosevelt, and Clay, but that's just due to partisan politics and difference of ideology and even factoring that in calling them "dictators" is just plain wrong and offensive.

Beyond that, we could get into a vast number of other things that are older, more legitimately shady/corrupt, a legitimate form of office, or some combo of the aforementioned. For one, Supreme Court Justices and other analogous high judges fit the "legitimate" part. For the others, we have several good examples churned up by Machine Politics in the 19th century.

And even if we were to add a "To avoid Natter, limit yourself to examples older than two/three centuries" tag, we would still have a number of examples. Not the least in Classical Greece and Rome and various elective monarchies.

On the whole, while I'm discontent with a lot of the pace of No Real Life Examples being added, I can understand and accept why. However, these two examples in particular stand out to me as being worthy of removal from the list. Hence why I've decided to air my opinion.

Thank you for your time.

edited 7th Oct '12 2:05:53 PM by Turtler

Re: Permanent Elected Official: The trope is not about "politicians who stay in office a long time." It is about elected politicians who cannot be removed from office, no matter what (short of a coup). While I am not particularly familiar with politics, I know that no actual democratically elected officials who have to be re-elected fall under that (regardless of whether they actually ever get voted out of office, they still could be/could have been), and I'm pretty sure the other examples you've mentioned would also fall under the "could be removed from office if there was a reason to" problem.

Re: The Empire: This is a Villain trope. We don't call real life people, even real life people in aggregate, evil. Period.

edited 7th Oct '12 3:08:35 PM by Nocturna

Yeah, the only thing that could make a Permanent Elected Official in RL would be either a) an elected monarch for life (I am sure there is no brand of such people) or b) a elected politician turned dictator.