Misused: Bishoujo Series

Shojo girls can look like Shonen girls easily but with more hair detail and less Buxom Is Better [1]◊[2]◊ (and occasionally differing eye detail.)

It all depends on the artist really, Animation Studios themselves are known for art shifting them closer together too.

Also those Josei works the art styles vary wildly.

edited 9th Apr '12 1:39:04 PM by Raso

Huh. Found an old TRS thread that had a called crowner calling for a definition expansion but never had anything done about it.

edited 9th Apr '12 1:39:10 PM by lebrel

The two shoujo girls you linked are the type of shoujo that gave rise to the bishoujo character design that we're talking about; up until the 90s you'd never see female characters even remotely designed like that in shonen or seinen works.

edited 9th Apr '12 1:43:35 PM by lebrel

That's kinda why I chose them (not to sound snide, of course). Trying to get a cross-section of different styles to find common ground.

Not really I dont see one or the other stealing elements though the styles evolved the same direction a bit only because of Moe influence. (nether is anywhere same art style of the 90s)

Again the way your defining a trope is P So C or at best Useful Notes.

A trope about evolution of anime art styles and links to the defined style pages themselves would be a lot better, with the numerous examples of Art Style Throw Back s out there like Mysterious Girlfriend X and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei's second season ED (A Shōnen series which uses Noodle People) and the entirety of Turn A Gundam.

Right now all emphasis on round edges in the art style aka Puni Plush and the emphasis on harsher straight edges with thin usually tall bodies aka Noodle People are really the only big defined art styles right now, none are confined to a specific demographic.

I am a big anime fan (duh) but I just do not see the point of this page or what your trying to make it.

hmm I never knew about that.... I thought the thread was locked a while back never knew a crowner was held.

edited 9th Apr '12 2:04:10 PM by Raso

I'm not against launching as Useful Notes. Like I said earlier, as I see this, launch YKTTW with no examples, just the definition and common characteristics (kinda like what the Dojikko page has).

"Not really I dont see one or the other stealing elements though the styles evolved the same direction a bit only because of Moe influence."

Moe as an art style came from shoujo. It started off as doujinshi, etc with the male Periphery Demographic for girls' shows, then it spread into stuff being made for otaku, then it spread everywhere.

"Right now all emphasis on round edges in the art style aka Puni Plush and the emphasis on harsher straight edges with thin usually tall bodies aka Noodle People are really the only big defined art styles right now, none are confined to a specific demographic."

For the second time, this is not about body shape. Bishoujo characters who are Puni Plush and bishoujo characters who are tall and elegant are both bishoujo.

"I am a big anime fan (duh) but I just do not see the point of this page or what your trying to make it."

We want a page that explains bishoujo (currently bishoujo is a redirect to Bishoujo Series), and so we are seeking to find a tropeable definition of bishoujo design. The other option would be to make it a fanspeak page, or a redirect to the Anime Fanspeak page.

There is a clear tendency in current shonen/seinen for attractive women to be portrayed as young, girlish, and hyperfeminine (as opposed to the sultry vamps of old-school seinen), and to use shoujo-esque visual elements like ribbons and sparkles. It didn't use to be so, it isn't so in other cultures, there is something identifiable at work there, what is it?

edited 9th Apr '12 2:17:23 PM by lebrel

I don't think Useful Notes is the right place to put stuff like this. A fanspeak page would work.

Didn't think of that one. Good catch.

Ok on my phone ATM so small post Inc (will elaborate on earlier points later.)

It is not Fan Speak though nobody uses Bishōjo to talk about what you are talking about. Bishojo Series is something different (per The Other Wiki.) Bishojo is just Beautiful Young Girl.... Something completely different than Bishōnen which has its own connotations to using that term.

edited 9th Apr '12 2:31:11 PM by Raso

That's the point. Making it a fanspeak term means we can actually describe how people use the term, without having to have examples or anything. That way there's a page that people can link that want to use the term, but it doesn't infect Bishojo Series,

Whether it will work, I don't know. You'd need a big disclaimer about it having to be a whole series, and that it's specifically NOT for explaining how attractive you think the girls are. And then someone would probably need to have it on their watchlist to watch for bad examples creeping back in.

That's why I suggested launching as definition-only

Further revision: Still have to watch out for misuse on work pages, though.

edited 10th Apr '12 10:55:14 AM by tdgoodrich1

I would just cutlist "Bishojo" it has 0 inbounds then use the wiki page's meaning for Bishojo Series for the "trope".

Do we want a crowner for what to do with Bishoujo? (AAK. Getting rid of the Bishoujo custom title will probably be Step 1 in anything.)

Also, Bishojo has no inbounds but Bishoujo has 61.

edited 10th Apr '12 2:23:41 PM by lebrel

The page history for Bishōjo says that it's been a redirect since at least 29th Dec 2010, so it can't have got any inbounds by then.

That wasn't on the list of redirects?... oh its a redirect to a redirect... WTF.

Faux Redlink Bishoujo and Bishojo IMO.

edited 10th Apr '12 2:29:13 PM by Raso

As far as I can tell, Bishojo has always been a redirect, it used to point at Bishoujo when that was still the page title.

edited 10th Apr '12 2:30:08 PM by lebrel

Let's get the crowner hooked, then.

Side note: Do we need to add some sort of note to the current Bishoujo Series page to indicate in no uncertain terms not to use the term "Bishoujo" to indicate a pretty girl?

Side note 2: As brought up elsewhere in the thread we should probably specify that Bishoujo Series is Anime/Eastern only and cut the Western examples regardless of what else happens here.

Crowner here. I think I got all the options, if I didn't please add.

@ tdgoodrich 1:

Your point 1: Let's see what the crowner says to do with Bishoujo/Bishojo before we consider that. Your point 2: Go for it. Eastern rather than anime, because it shows up in non-anime works.

Duly noted. On it.

Edit: On second thought, does that also count obviously Eastern inspired works?

edited 10th Apr '12 3:05:37 PM by tdgoodrich1

I would say Animesque stuff counts, you might want to mention the inspiration in the writeup so it will be clear.

Well the other wiki says its primarily a term used for Harem Genre, Dating Sim and Visual Novels.

From Wikipedia:

I've seen the word used extensively to refer to characters all over the English-speaking Web, and it's used in that sense in translated Japanese works on anime / manga / otaku culture generally (for example, Saito Tamaki's Sentō bishōjo no seishin bunseki / Beautiful Fighting Girl). Even if Wikipedia stated flat out that it only referred to genres, I wouldn't go with that; they're been wrong before.

edited 10th Apr '12 3:18:25 PM by lebrel

Just cleaned page as stated. Feel free to correct anything I missed.