Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

Torched it, ("it" being a Freaky Is Cool example that was used for fallacious complaining about wingfic), citing this thread.

While I'm here: a few days ago, I asked in the Twilight cleanup thread about adding a link to the thread to the The Twilight Saga entry on the sandbox, but never got a response. Therefore, I'm crossposting my request to this thread. I just want to get consensus and make sure that what I'm planning won't be deemed a unilateral edit.

Edited by Riolugirl on Apr 15th 2024 at 2:08:17 PM

"As long as I have my comrades with me, I can do anything!" (She/Her)

I'd support adding a link to the cleanup thread for Twilight on the complaining sandbox

"Stand Proud, Sukuna, you are strong" | He/Him

Found on the page for Abomi Nation:

Clueless Aesop: The game's lazy writing and mechanics fumble its attempts to deconstruct Mon games. Despite the game telling you to treat your party as people and to care about them, it plays the majority of "Monster" game mechanics completely straight. The lack of variation in dialogue makes your party still feel like expendable nobodies, as does the lack of real lasting consequence for letting one perish; Ioti remains chipper and cheery no matter how many have died, outwardly coming off as less caring than the trainers the game lampoons (as mons couldn't be Killed Off for Real in those games), and mons other than Divonion don't really react to the death of one of their comrades beyond cheap funerals with dialogue so canned that they often seem like they were only doing it out of obligation, which isn't helped by the Mad Libs Dialogue resulting in characters mourning people they've never met.

And this is on the main page, not even YMMV. Feels way too complaining, can I delete it?

Clueless Aesop is not under YMMV (and I feel it should be). However it feels more like Broken Aesop: the game knows what message it has, it just fails to implement it consistently. Broken Aesop has been made YMMV so at least that will move it to a more appropriate page.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.

So, I found this on Trivia.Arrow:

• Lying Creator:
  • Marc Guggenheim is notorious for this, especially in season 4 regarding Laurel's character. He told fans that Laurel was going to get her own storyline and villain, but none of that happened during the season and Laurel was killed off before it could happen. Needless to say, fans and even some of the cast were none to pleased of Guggenheim's fib. He also said that Roy would return as a Recurring Character in Season 5. That did not happen and Roy never appeared outside of a Stock Footage hologram.
  • At HVFF Portland, Stephen Amell claimed that Olicity was always the endgame ship for the show. That was a blatant lie that several people called him out on, as Emily Bett Rickards wasn't even intended to be a series regular at first and only got onto the cast because of her popularity with the fans, cast, and crew. Hell, the only reason she was even a reoccurring character in Season One was because of that. To say nothing about how Season One was clearly structured to support the Lauriver ship, which was canon in the comic book the show is based on. Most speculate this was an attempt to quell the anti-Olicity wave of publicity the show got after the end of 2017 crossover Crisis on Earth-X.
  • Related to both cases, at one point Guggenheim, shortly after killing off Laurel, tried to downplay how often they engage in Pandering to the Base, specifically for the Olicity fanbase, by claiming they don't take what fans are calling for into account. This, of course, is pretty easy to see isn't the case given how much the show was visibly doing that in the first season, from downplaying Laurel/Oliver and promoting Felicity's character, not to mention its what lead to Sara's revival and Legends of Tomorrow being conceived.

The first one is fine but the second two are just full of complaining. Is it okay if I try to rewrite these?

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Please do.

It annoys me to no end that every show that is new enough to be airing at the time TV Tropes already existed is full of wall of text-sized negativity.

Usually, all of it pertaining to a couple of pet peeves of the fandom. In Arrow's case, it's mostly hatred of Felicity and disappointment with how Laurel was treated.

And okay, I get it, we should chronicle fandom's reactions. But it's annoying how these same reactions are repeated at length in so many different tropes.

Dunno what the second bullet point is getting at, but the third reads to me like someone disagreeing with the creator's opinions rather than the creator saying one thing and then doing another. I agree with rewriting it.

Then so many tropers violate policy and we have to stay diligent.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Is it me or does YMMV.Himegoto look like it was written by someone who didn’t Ike the anime?

I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO

AND it names an entire group of people was a The Scrappy which is NOT ALLOWED.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

Yeah I can't speak for the show's quality or even whether anything is accurate but the examples are all low on context, kind of like someone troped the entire series based off the first few episodes.

Edited by Blegh on Apr 21st 2024 at 7:52:31 AM

I removed The Scrappy example for misuse.

More D.W. complaining:

• Creator's Pet: D.W. can be this sometimes due to her whiny, bratty, and occasional Smug Snake behavior and the fact that she almost never faces any consequences for such behavior. And yet the show often treats her like a good guy or a victim. She's often seen as the female Funny Animal version of Caillou.

Okay, outside of a few Never Live It Down moments from the earlier seasons, I don't think this counts at all. Because for the most part, the show doesn't go much further than portraying her as a regular Annoying Younger Sibling like most kids will deal with, and after the first couple seasons the amount of really infamous eps decreases a lot. There's a couple of episodes where she does end up learning a lesson, too: that she can't have everything she wants after she befriends a wild deer and wants to take it home, realizing the responsibilities that come with having a library card, that her favorite series isn't inclusive to disabled people, how to be a good patient for an operation, etc.).

And even for the Creator's Pet criteria, it feels pretty shoehorned in:

• The Scrappy: Obviously D.W.'s been complained about a lot, but outside of a few episodes I think most fans are okay with her, especially later on in the show's run. She has spawned a good amount of memes, too.
• Creator's Favorite: No official statement on this.
• Character Focus: D.W. obviously has plenty of episodes to her name, but it's kind of expected — she is one of the main characters and the sister of the titular character. The show has definitely been able to pull off episodes about other characters without D.W. involved.
• Character Shilling: Probably the least accurate point, there are plenty of moments where Arthur snarks at D.W. for being annoying or bothering her.

The things in my dreams wish they could chase me!

Yeah I'd cut those. Also people need to remember that she's FOUR (or five?) for crying out loud.

Found this on Final Fantasy XV Noctis Lucis Caelum:

• Meaningful Name: It's probably meant to be "light of the night sky" to complement Luna's name. Too bad they butchered the Latin.

I'm not a Latin expert, but I tried a translate program and it did produce "night light sky" from "noctis lucis caelum". There's probably a more grammatical way to say it that the example is hinting at, but again not a Latin expert. I don't even think that last remark is necessary to the example.

CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors

It's not necessary, and also it's probably not "probably", Tetsuya Nomura protagonists generally follow weather Theme Naming. "Noctis" also is named after the Darkness element IIRC.

Edited by Amonimus on Apr 23rd 2024 at 5:18:31 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Got it, I'll remove those bits then.

CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors

Bonus points for the Caillou comparison, as if everyone knows who he is. Although then again, grown ass men sure like to complain about him a lot on the internet.

Another instance of Hater Myopia.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Apr 23rd 2024 at 7:55:56 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

Eh, I think it's a safe bet that anyone reading about Arthur would know who Caillou is.

Hiveswap has a few entries that don't sit right with me, mostly just being complaining about controversy that happened before the game released and have nothing to do with its actual gameplay or plot.

The things in my dreams wish they could chase me!

But the READER may not and entries are not just for fans of the property, it has to take account that the reader may not be familiar with ANY WORK.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

This paragraph on Freak Out seems to serve little purpose other than complaining about the trope:

---

A well-done Freak Out makes the audience freak out as well, and provides more Character Development than an entire season could in the same. Sadly, this is rare — all too often, it is used as a desperate gimmick to "revitalize" a show. Viewers should beware if a Freak Out comes due to Executive Meddling, if it comes after several seasons, if it makes the character Darker and Edgier, or if it makes the character hornier. If all four happen at once, chances are high that the show is Jumping the Shark.

"As long as I have my comrades with me, I can do anything!" (She/Her)

Yeah, every trope can be done wrong and be awful and thus this warning is whiny and pointless.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

Removed it because trope descriptions are supposed to describe definitions objectively instead of editorializing, and because the rest of the description already explains the definition without that paragraph.

Edit: That paragraph predates the current page history, so its existence is probably due to lower standards in the early years of the wiki.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 24th 2024 at 2:33:26 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Doesnt surprise me.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

More specific Hiveswap stuff:

• Award Snub: Someone submitted a whopping 143-page comic to the Hiveswap Comics Contest, but wasn't nominated as a potential winner. The most likely reason being that, while excellent, it was 143 pages. This is not about the work itself nor it being nominated for an award.
• Broken Base:
  • The trolls' designs in general have come under fire from some fans for appearing more Beforan than Alternian, especially since Alternian trolls are supposed to be a Proud Warrior Race that doesn't care about fashion. Others point out that trolls not caring about fashion came from Karkat, who is a bit of an Unreliable Narrator, and like the variety in designs. Then there are some fans who, while they wish the designs were more Alternian, are perfectly fine with the Beforan designs. It was later explained that this was done because there were so many trolls and they didn't want them all to look the same otherwise it'd be boring. Pretty much nobody has a problem with this anymore, lately I've been seeing a lot of praise for the designs.
  • Regarding the Hiveswap Comics Contest, many fans were disappointed when a full 143-page comic wasn't nominated for the last week of the contest compared to what DID win for that week, claiming that What Pumpkin isn't equipped to judge comics properly. Others have said the comic may have been too long for its own good, or that Act 2 wasn't able to own up to the plot the entry had. Not related specifically to the work.
• Hype Aversion: An interesting case. Many fans are miffed at the lack of Violet-blooded trolls, especially since "less deserving" castes like Teal and Gold have loads of trolls. However, as the reveals went on, the complaints about the lack of Violets became louder and louder. This resulted in fans becoming irritated at new trolls getting needlessly bashed because they lacked fins, and many of said fans becoming apathetic towards the idea of new seadwellers appearing in the game. This isn't really a problem with the game anymore, and does Hype Aversion for a specific aspect that could be fixed really count?
• Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: The Hiveswap Comics Contest could result in previously ignored or even disliked trolls that were featured in victorious comics gaining more fans. Skylla, Kuprum, and Folykl are particularly noteworthy examples, since they were both featured in winning comics with unique interpretations of their characters. Skylla's comic depicts her as being more of a philosopher than her simplistic Cowgirl appearance lets on, while Kuprum and Folykl's feature has a heartwarming and sympathetic take on the otherwise eerie duo. Do fan-made comics not in the work really count for redeeming a character?

The things in my dreams wish they could chase me!