...can still biteLet's just link the crowner already and get this over with.
...can still bitebump
Do we have a crowner link?
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
Here's the crowner. "Is there a problem? Yes/No" Because by my count there are two people who see no problem and 3 at least that do.
A Wizard boyA crowner that asks "Is there a problem?" is absolutely useless. Ask for an actual solution, rather than a problem.
No one complain about this one. Let us do that one first and see the result. And at page 5, I think that everyone agreed that there is a problem.
...can still biteWe need to figure out how to fix the actual trope first. We should just go ahead and link crowner #2.
I've read most of the earlier post, and think I've noticed a problem. People seem to alter one of the stats for no reason. Take Glass Cannon for instance. The trope is for characters with high attack and low defense People tend to assume that the Characters SPEED however, would also be either high or low when it should simply be average. Let me demonstrate with the slightly modified tier list. First Tier High attack, low defense, average speed: Glass Cannon High defense, low attack, average speed: Stone Wall High speed, low defense, average attack: Fragile Speedster Second Tier High attack & defense, low speed: Mighty Glacier High attack & speed, low defense: Fast and Fragile Fighter(?) High speed, high defense, low attack: none Third Tier High attack, defense, & speed: Lightning Bruiser I think we need to define these using all three stats for all of them. This should decrease confusion regarding the 'first tier' characters: one of their stat would simple have to be average. You see what I'm getting at?
edited 27th Aug '12 8:17:02 PM by Vootuu
Rhymes with "Protracted."
It seems to me that the stat that doesn't factor into the direct creation of the trope would be average by default. The problem is that without the somewhat similar tropes being very clearly defined, people will keep misusing them. If all the stats are spelled out, there would be no need for guessing and shoehorning.
Flower FairyNow, about the "subversion" nature of this trope. Is it possible for us to just create the tropes "Stronger Than You Look" and "Faster Than You Look" so that it doesn't have to be incorporated into the trope description?
rationally insaneI'm starting to think that "subversion" angle should get dropped entirely, if it's giving people the wrong idea about the stat setup. The expectation it's intended to subvert is entire notion of Competitive Balance. You get used to thinking a strong character should be slow, or a character that is fast should be weak. But dividing up those expectations apparently breeds the interpretation that the character is either +speed/+offense/+defense OR +speed/+offense/-defense, which it is not. My vote would be for nuking the sections. I sort of like the idea of Faster Than They Look or Tougher Than They Look tropes.
Flower FairyAlright. Can I prepare YKTTWs for those two tropes, then?
Acrofatic or Cute Bruiser.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
...can still biteYou forgot Stronger Than They Look. Also, have we figured out how to fix the trope yet? Can we start cleaning up examples already?
edited 7th Sep '12 4:56:36 PM by shiro_okami
rationally insaneProposed (no options are mutually exclusive):
edited 8th Sep '12 1:25:30 AM by Tyoria
...can still biteThis! Even if we don't decide to do anything about Competitive Balance or launching tropes right now, we should at least be able to fix Lightning Bruiser right now.
Flower FairyI can start up a thread on a Competitive Balance overhaul if that is needed.
rationally insaneGo for it. It's an issue worth looking at, and it seems this conversation has a hard time not derailing in that direction for so long as it seemingly looks unresolved.
Flower FairyCompetitive Balance thread created. Now we can focus our discussion on Competitive Balance over there.
edited 15th Sep '12 6:04:09 PM by WaxingName
Flower FairyFaster Than They Look YKTTW created.
Flower FairyStronger Than They Look YKTTW created. Now, is everyone sure that I have to make a "Tougher Than You Look" YKTTW?
...can still biteSince we didn't seem to be going anywhere on the actual Lightning Bruiser trope, I created a Sandbox here. Took out the Hard-hitting Speedster section and "clarified" the description. Not perfect, but at least it's a start.
Flower FairyI've got a suggestion. Divide Video Games into their respective genres. You may also put it on top of the example list or leave it there.
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