The Gun Thread

Dunno if you were making like burgers or something maybe.

Seems more like something you want when you're out to kill someone in a terrible way.

So not much of a market then

Oh really when?

It's probably the latest in the long line of "zombie" ammunition.

"Yup. That tasted purple."

Everyone knows the correct zombie ammunition is 12 Gauge.

They do have medals for almost, and they're called silver!

Shotguns are less effective with dealing with Zombies than Hollywood would have you believe.

You try removing the head or destroying the brain with double-aught buck.

"Yup. That tasted purple."

It's an answer to a question no one asked. Given that their video shows R.I.P. going through a cinder block (breeze block), it's useless for home defense. Miss and it will R.I.P. your girl/guy/Xbox One in the next room.

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48

So it's a pretentious paper puncher.

That's a lot of "P"s.

"Yup. That tasted purple."

It is yet another wunder round with some actual function to back its claims. It looks like it is a impact action self fragmenting round. Not really horribly different then any other round that does something similar.

It is all copper though giving it a bit more mass. The smaller pieces would lose a lot of velocity very quickly once they break off and they look like they tumble very easily.

For home defense. They are shooting cinder block. Last I checked the average modern home interior lacks cinder block for it's interior walls. Instead they are wood studs with dry wall/sheet rock hung on them with some insulation in the walls. Most fire arm rounds will go through multiple modern interior wall layers.

You have to be very careful in home defense scenarios with shooting and being very careful with shot placement regardless of what round you use. There is no such thing as guaranteed perfect round performance or a perfect scenario.

The Hague Treaty pretty much doesn't matter any more. Only a certain handful of nations signed it and has long since been superseded by more recent treaties.

Soft nosed and expanding ammo is legal for use on the battle field under a variety of conditions. Especially against non-signatories of said treaties. This is why it is actually legal on the international level to use the Raufoss round against human targets.

This round would be almost useless against even soft body armor since it breaks up so readily.

Now depending on a legal examination of the rounds mechanics it may or may not be legal to use in certain situations.

As for cruelty I am assuming it performs reliably on a hit for hit basis. It may not in reality but for the sake of argument I am assuming it does. It isn't any more cruel then normal ammo that mushrooms or fragments. If it has a consistent wound profile like demonstrated you would cause such a high degree of traumatic bleeding alone your target would die very quickly.

If you hit center mass you would shred up so many blood bearing vessels, organs, and nerve clusters your targets life span post hit would be measured in a few seconds. If anything this round is more merciful then standard ammo by comparison.

Repeated hits would of course just cause more severe wounding and increase the rate of bleed out.

As for hunting you could feasibly use it for both meat and trophy hunting. Since the fragmentation effect appears to take place post impact and the penetration of the small fragments appears to be relatively shallow in tissue alone never mind through bone, hide, and other bits from point of impact. You would run a low risk of a through and through perforation.

As with hunting with any round shot placement is important. Head, neck, or heart shots would still leave the majority of the meat intact. Even then since it is copper rather then lead, stray fragments are less of an issue.

Shotties vs zombies

As for shotguns vs the head. 00 buckshot at close range will fuck up anyone's skull. Even a single pellet will do quite a bit of damage to the brain. But since this is a shotgun shell you are pretty likely to land multiple hits to the brain with a single shot doing even more damage.

Multiple buck hits will splatter most of the brain. The closer to the target you are when you shoot the tighter the buck shot grouping will be. Then there is the consideration of Military Buck vs Hunting Buck. The military ammo is copper plated and has better range and penetration. There are also steel buck shot rounds available in some shells.

Then there are a variety of slug rounds which have proven to do a shit ton of damage on impact.

The biggest failing of shotguns vs zombies isn't a lack of effectiveness of appropriate ammo. It is more a problem of the bulk of ammo limiting the amount of extra rounds you can carry. The weapons also have a very low storage capacity and the ones that have high capacity tend to be fairly hefty.

---

For the following article the two sources I could find were Fox News and the daily caller. Take any claims with a grain of salt.

Supposedly another news org wanted to compile a list of CC holders for some reason The update in the article says the media company in question rejected the plan.

edited 27th Jan '14 5:42:00 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?

Doesn't surprise me. Lots of pearl clutching by those who don't understand guns, gun owners and shooting culture.

Warning: Daily Caller is very heterosexist with a capital "Have I Mentioned I Am Heterosexual Today?", may be triggering, avoid if you are drinking anything

G2R Radically Invasive Projectile: 9-Part 9mm Segmented Hollow Point www.thefirearmblog.com (pics at the link)

edited 27th Jan '14 7:13:49 PM by TairaMai

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48

Taira: Exactly why I said to take it with a grain of salt. I will have to check that link when I get home.

Who watches the watchmen?

As far as shooting through your walls goes, I heard a great rule of thumb regarding self defense: Anything that can kill a human will go through a wall. If it has the force necessary to kill a person, it easily has the force necessary to go through an interior wall and probably an exterior one too. Likewise, if it lacks the force to do that, it will not reliably kill a person.

I cringe at folks who use birdshot for home defense.

Shep: I have heard the same.

taira: Checked the ling. Good points on total mass retention. I think the only real advantage in that regard is the smaller fragments spread out increasing the likely hood of damaging organs or blood bearing bits of the body.

Who watches the watchmen?

From the article:

"Defeats all known barriers..."

Yeah, I doubt it. Let's test this baby against Mr. ESAPI plate, and then we can move on to our friendly neighborhood Awesome Personnel Carrier.

As much as I dislike the concept of birdshot for home defense, I kept a round of it in the chamber. Too many stories of panicked N Ds, mistaken identity and the like. If I'd accidentally tagged my dad, I'd rather it be birdshot. If it wasn't... well a flechette round was one pump away.

I have this mystical skill in the infantry called "typing" First Civ Div, but fuck you once a grunt always disgruntled.

I tried to watch the video on their website, I really did, but after I heard the bad attempt at an In a World… narration, I closed the window immediately. Not to mention the goofy bits with the guy unloading a submachine gun. If you can't put your enemy down using one of those, the quality of your ammo is probably not the issue at hand.

On gun terminology and trolling people.

ESAPI is body armor not a barrier. Besides they listed the barriers. Like sheet metal, ply wood, and wind shields.

Who watches the watchmen?

Just back from an awesome couple of days at my sister's place where I finally got the opportunity to sight in my CZ 452 with the "new" scope.

Some good fun plinking at cans and plastic bottles afterwards and my youngest daughter (aged 5) got her first taste of firing something other than an airsoft gun.

WHEEEEE! Pan Fed .22LR SMG.

edited 31st Jan '14 9:59:44 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?

The thing from Fallout is real?

I want

Oh really when?

Man, if someone ever shot me with a 22LR, and I ever found out about it?

Just look at all the recoil!

I'm baaaaaaack

A 16-shot .22lr Stirling semiautomatic rifle tweaked to fire fully automatic only makes one tiny hole at about 10 metres due to the rate of fire and the practically nonexistent recoil

...Or So I Heard

edited 1st Feb '14 2:25:10 AM by Wolf1066

So this guy decides to use some realistic gun sounds out of very loud high quality speakers to simulate drive-bys' in the Ghetto Towards the end of the video you will folks will note something showing this was probably not a good idea to begin with.

Who watches the watchmen?

Is that the same guy who came up with the "brilliant" prank involving a guy running into a bank while wearing a balaclava?

Could be. He has history of videos of him doing some really stupid shit.

edited 6th Feb '14 6:08:36 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?