This needs some serious reworking.: Token Loli

If we didn't have the rule, I wouldn't mind using "moe" in the name.

Though, I've learned what it means during my time here, and I understand that people who aren't 15-25 year old anime/manga fans wouldn't have a damn clue what "token moe" is just by looking at it, which isn't really good.

There are many trope titles that I don't understand too, and with words I don't understand too. If I need clarification about it, I open the page and check.

Anyway, what exactly is the problem with the current page? Is it "incorrect usage", or "offensive title", or something else?

edited 16th Jan '12 12:29:39 AM by OneMore

Why was that Trope named "Loli" anyway? It's not like there are only examples of girls that fit the Trope.

Because it referred to girls only, and fitting male examples were rare enough to work as "a variation" without needing a separate page?

Ideally, the person should read the page to check. If I were in Eddie's place I'd make exceptions for certain things that are basically harmless (not to mention easy to remember) such as "moe," and other things, like that dumb trope that translates to "absolute territory" or whatever bullshit. But I'm not, and so I work with what I've got.

So what does "Token Loli" mean again?

I would read the page, but it's not there anymore.

Zettai Ryouiki? Ugh...

edited 16th Jan '12 12:33:14 AM by kay4today

The examples were mostly girls, the last thread Token Shota was made a redirect to it to include Reverse Harem s and BL stuff. (Ouran High School Host Club had one genderflipped according to shima, Hani I think it was... I havent watched it myself yet.)

edited 16th Jan '12 12:36:46 AM by Raso

The problem is a lot of people don't, which leads to misuse or underuse on many articles, which is why a clear name (that, in the best case scenario, doesn't rely on an understanding of a foreign language) is so important.

But that's neither here nor there in this discussion.

Well, "token moe" is unisex, no?

And, it's apparently supposed to boil down to "cute person who looks like a little kid thrown in with a bunch of adults, with no real comment as to the idea of this possibly not being an appropriate place for a kid for whatever reason and the kid treated as another character with no substantial objections, for the sake of having cute things."

@Fly

Ah, okay. Thanks for explaining.

I wish there was some way to translate that into English. Japanese Trope names kinda annoy me...

Token Cutie perhaps, or something similar? Or just Token Kid.

(I think it is) Different from Tagalong Kid in that, as the page says at least, Tagalong Kid is a member of a Five-Man Band, while the trope in question is for the whole cast or a Cast Herd.

edited 16th Jan '12 12:43:23 AM by OneMore

Token Cutie would be perfect.

...

Wow, duh. I feel like an idiot now.

Edit: As a compromise, I'd be willing to keep Token Moe as a redirect...

edited 16th Jan '12 12:42:44 AM by Flyboy

Token Moe Child or Token Harem Cutie have been the best suggestions so far IMO they are not perfect and invite misuse but they are better than nothing.

Token Cutie doesn't sound so bad.

Why add "Harem"?

edited 16th Jan '12 12:44:45 AM by kay4today

(Reminds himself that he really shouldn't edit his posts in such fast-progressing conversations...)

edited 16th Jan '12 12:44:29 AM by OneMore

Imma stay with Token Cutie, myself.

Should we have a crowner for this, or what...?

Because this trope is specific to harem / romance / Fanservice/ Slice of Life type shows.

In the cast of Highschool girls there will always be a younger or younger looking (as in older than they look) relationship Option, gets some type of Fanservice (even if its not actual nudity or even close to it) yada yada their personalities are always based around pandering to the Moe crowd with them being Weakness Played For Cute (Tsundere, emotionally damaged, shy, quirky yada.)

These are never actually serious romantic options unless they are Older Than They Look. (example of a winner Gosick she is older than he is.) They are Token because there always seems to be one in these shows its pretty much required.

That is the trope.

edited 16th Jan '12 12:57:05 AM by Raso

It does not have to be a harem show. For example, Rika and Satoko in Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni are Token Lolis, yet it is not a harem show.

I mean those type of shows Harem, Dating Sim, Visual Novel, Romance, Slice of Life and stuff like that which are all aimed at the same crowd of viewers. Inverse guys are BL and Reverse Harem etc aimed at the Yaoi Fangirl s and such aka Noir Grimoir

Using Harem as a place holder is the most descriptive term I can think of that wont invite massive misuse... look at what was done to Patient Childhood Love Interest even though that is pretty much a really close opposite sex Childhood friend with unannounced entry privileges... not descriptive at all.

edited 16th Jan '12 1:15:21 AM by Raso

Once again, "harem" doesn't work as a placeholder here, as there are examples with no relation to harems or anything you listed (and by the way, Visual Novel is a medium type, not a genre or anything else).

Yeah Bro's sock puppet has been troll-thumped.

Higurashi does purposely have a harem-like set up, so Rika is playing with "Token Harem Cutie".

Never mind, though. I agree with you, the word is unneeded. I agree Token Cutie might work, but I feel it changes the meaning somewhat, and it is more likely to be misused then Token Loli was. I doubt anyone would call Evangeline a 'Token Cutie', but she was much clearly a Token Loli.

The thing is the trope (as I remember it) does not require a cute behavior. Sure, it kinda need to have a cute appearance, but the character does not need to act the part. The word 'cutie' can be used to describe both the appearance and behavior, thus a trope with 'cutie' in the name wil likely make people believe the character must be both to fit.

Btw, where can i make a petition to un-ban Arha? He was a frequent and useful member of the anime and visual novel forums, and would be a damn shame to not have him posting there anymore because of such matter. Specially because he was not even alone in his opinion (many latter posted to agree with him)

edited 16th Jan '12 6:26:25 AM by Heatth

Arha has a weekly suspension to cool off. He'll be back.

edited 16th Jan '12 6:24:48 AM by lu127

I wouldn't consider The Loli Grandma this trope as she is in present day Negima she lacks nearly all the qualities as she is right now she isn't really a love interest, her dere moments are rare, her Fanservice is her adult form, etc. (she does want to be Nagi's girl and in those flashbacks she is extremely cute, Moe and such which does fit.... But only flashbacks) that could change though.

She is heavily into the Lolita fashion though Goth Loli, Sweet Loli and Country Loli are all common costume choices for her. (All Shown Their Work costumes too.)

If anything it would be the other Shana Clone Anya as the real token Loli. In Negima Second Season it's the twins.

edited 16th Jan '12 6:54:15 AM by Raso