Badass tropes - now on: Action Girl

This question just hit me... Where are you guys coming up with the assertation that "badass" is only sometimes used as an effective synonym to "awesome" or "cool" off this site? All the sources, including some dictionaries, that I've consulted on the matter say that it's a widely accepted definition of the word, not a limitedly used one.

Dictionary.com has a list of several definitions collected from multiple dictionary sources.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

That's why I think that the trope should be "tough", not just "good at fights". To cover these instances. Narrowing a term this broad down to an overly narrow meaning won't work, but something a little broader might.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

That feels like a good compromise to me. Hell, that might even cover some of the weirder subtropes like Badass Pacifist.

Is there any disagreement on the dedicated ZCE cleanup thread?

How is that weird? You still think badass strictly has to doing with violent acts?

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Using Badass Pacifist as an example, it seems that indeed many/most subtropes of Badass do always involve physical violence, either on part of the Badass in question or with him/her resisting/confronting such violence in one way or the other that doesn't necessarily involve using violence (i.e. "fight fire with fire") and is what earns him/her the Badass credentials.

edited 29th Apr '15 2:16:28 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Plus there are some acts of standing up to a clearly dangerous threat that has been called badass, even though the standing up isn't about being violent.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Are we still arguing? Serious question. Because it seems like we agree that the "tough" definition is broad enough without being so broad as to be useless, but we still seem to be arguing.

I do have a problem with the "tough" definition. My problem is: what exactly do you mean by "tough"? It's a bit vague.

Another thing is, why do we assume all tropes that are currently called "subtropes to Badass" are actually subtropes to Badass? Let's be open-minded about it. Quite possibly e.g. Badass Pacifist isn't actually a Badass subtrope.

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As Dragon Quest Z said, Competent Fighter just means "adequate fighter". Yes, we could use that as a supertrope — problem is, few wicks actually use Badass to mean someone just adequate at fighting. Whatever Badass means, it usually means something more than adequate.

Barring obvious misuse, here are the most common meanings I've seen:

1. Using improbable and flashy moves in fights.
2. Defeating someone with noticeable ease. Maybe even deliberately making it look easy.
3. Keeping on trucking despite withstanding dangerous hazards. E.g. wounds, injury, cold, fire, etc.
4. Having an in-universe "don't fuck with him/her" personal image. E.g. "scariest vampires are scared oh him", etc.

I don't think these can be lumped under something as vague as "tough" or "adequate at fighting". If we want to lump them together, we need to find what's common to them without sacrificing what makes them stand out.

I personally think that most of these meanings show "something more than just being competent or tough". Some degree of heroism, or something that makes the person look superhuman without actually being superhuman. Something that makes you think "I couldn't do that... but I'd love to".

edited 29th Apr '15 7:51:41 PM by Rjinswand

This is a good reason to just use it as a fanspeak term, since the definition isn't set in stone.

By the way, I've even seen some existing tropes used to call characters badass, like Made of Iron.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Oh! Seems like we found our "Keeping on trucking despite wounds and injuries" trope. Thanks for bringing it up!

Hmm. From the name I thought it was doesn't sustain most injuries, period. Do we have a trope for that?

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Maybe it's a supertrope?

No, a Sister Trope. That trope is "get's injured, acts like it's nothing". This would be "inexplicably immune to most injuries".

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

"Tough" as in "good at fighting", "able to pull off stunts that normal people can't do" and the like.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Hm, after rereading Made of Iron's description, I think it actually is about "inexplicably immune to most injuries". "Gets injured, acts like it's nothing" is a missing sister trope.

Sorry, but that sounds really vague. Being an adequate fighter is one thing, but doing crazy impossible stunts while fighting is something completely different.

Nah, normal people don't have the braveness or stamina to fight or pull off impossible stunts. I don't really think it's as vague as you are perceiving.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

That's the thing. Being good at fighting is a thing "normal people" can be. I feel badass is when someone is portrayed as almost "superhuman" compared to "normal people".

That conflicts with "Badass Normal", however.

I don't think that'll work in itself. I do believe being tough(with some specifications) is the best route to go. I still agree to make it an exampleless page and the rest of the subtropes can be turned into proper examples.

Badass Normal isn't just "good at fighting". They're exceptionally good — so good they can go toe-to-toe with characters imbued with actual superpowers! So actually, it's exactly what I'm saying: someone portrayed as almost "superhuman" without actually being superhuman.

edited 30th Apr '15 6:23:39 AM by Rjinswand

badass = awesome and daring at what they do and in the context of the example?

OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!

This is admittedly a weird definition (and I was inspired by the caption on Impossibly Cool Weapon), but I think it could mean person does acts which the laws of reality would prevent for most people, even in fiction, but for these characters, the laws of reality instead decide to lay off and just Pass the Popcorn.

edited 30th Apr '15 2:39:08 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

I would say "laws of normality". Some Badass stunts can be done in Real Life, they are just abnormal/uncommon.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Point taken. Otherwise, how does that work as a definition?

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Seems like a good one. Of course, this is only one person's opinion.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I wonder if 'how the work treats the badass' factors in to the equation. Some works treat some of the most badass things as something absolutely normal and run of the mill while others make the most mundane or basic acts as beyond badass.

I mean like Videl in Dragon Ball Z can fly, punch people through walls and such but she is never treated as a badass, not once. She would be a badass in any other universe but not in DBZ. Then in Gundam Build Fighters Yuuki is treated completely as a badass but only because he is extremely skilled a building 7 inch models and using them in combat to be the 3 time world champion and so good that his opponents are scared. The former would be the badass in the latter's universe.

edited 1st May '15 6:19:02 AM by Memers