The Dreamstone

That last sentence is a fair point.

Just to point out, we actually saw a dream about half a dozen times in 52 episodes. We saw a nightmare only once. Note that pretty much every single episode went in excess about how wonderful and sacred these dreams were.

It's spiritual successor Bimbles Bucket was even worse with this, it was about sending fairy tales, which again we sparsely saw (though it at least didn't treat the premise nearly as dramatically as The Dreamstone tried to).

edited 30th Jul '16 2:48:41 AM by Psi001

Well, I guess Mike finally realized that making them Serious Business just came across as stupid.

By the way, if they DO reboot this show (y'know, I'm beginning to think we on this forum could make our own reboot, what with all these ideas), I think I'd like to see an episode that focuses solely on the Urpneys, as in NO Noops, Wuts or anyone else.

Bimble's Bucket from what I remember was more full on slapstick and the other elements of the show were tweaked better to suit the formula (eg. Queen Kak was a comical despot that fit the inactive role better than a badass demon like Zordrak, and while the heroes were still kinda boring compared to the villains, they were at least more playful and less redundant in size and power). I think it was the team realising what their strong point was and making a retool of the show to better fit that.

Truthfully they done enough borderline cases of full on villain episodes in the original series. I actually wouldn't mind if they tried a hero focused episode, ie. one where they have to provide the comedy and dilemma, though perhaps one where the heroes and villains have completely separate plots would be interesting.

edited 2nd Aug '16 4:32:20 PM by Psi001

Y'know, I've been wondering - was the Dreammaker human?

I mean, other than the female Dreammaker from "Mr Blossom's Present", he was the only "human" in the whole show, but I couldn't tell if it was supposed to be a Human Alien / Ambiguously Human-type thing.

edited 15th Aug '16 1:20:16 PM by fruitstripegum

From what I know, he had no otherworldly elements, not even elf ears like some other wizards.

Though some pure Earth creatures do seem to exist in the Sleeping World, fish for example.

edited 15th Aug '16 4:25:19 PM by Psi001

Hmmm...now I'm wondering if the other Dreammakers would become Ascended Extras in the possible reboot? I'd like to see if that female Dreammaker was The Smurfette Principle.

Mind you, that's assuming the creators don't do a Doctor Who and make the Dreammaker the Last of Their Kind.

Let's face it, the whole damn show was ripe with Canon Fodder.

It's a real shame the writers weren't remotely interested in spotlighting anything that wasn't an Urpney, someone put a lot of creativity into all that stuff.

I wonder if it was the result of Executive Meddling? A bit like what initially happened to Friendship is Magic, where a big fantasy was planned but the execs wanted something more episodic. I could totally imagine someone funding the show being more interested in the Urpneys and demanding the show focus mainly on their wacky antics.

The thing is though, Friendship Is Magic is still something that managed to work with this and become a rounded show, merging this demand while still having palpable substance of the original plan. The Dreamstone....didn't (but still pretended to have).

While it was dominantly Urpney focused, it wasn't completely, just that aspect was far more memorable. Even when they did have focus, everything about the heroes and their mythos was significantly duller and more half assed, you could tell the writers couldn't be bothered writing them, even when it was needed for the basic plot to run (they didn't even have a good provocation until Season Three, that's like a basic core element for any good vs evil story). Even if you rate it just for the Urpney formula, the bad writing of everything else makes it flawed.

I liked the final season since, while it was still fairly episodic, they were bothering to put some effort into the other bits, Rufus and Amberley were allowed to be comical, the endings were less Deus ex Machina based, and the feud tended to involve different worlds and characters that weren't mindlessly bland. It was the same basic Urpney formula, just the other stuff was allowed to bring entertainment value to it, which if anything the formula benefitted from (eg. Blob's men bouncing off of other funny characters instead of only themselves).

Concerning Executive Meddling, I have heard it had some play into the show early on. Zordrak allegedly underwent Villain Decay because execs thought he was too scary and most of the later characters were female as a result of Amberley being The Smurfette Principle originally (eg. Wildit and Spildit were not designed by Mike Jupp).

edited 19th Aug '16 5:58:06 PM by Psi001

Oh yes, Friendship is Magic definitely survived it better. But it was the closest parallel I could think of for Executive Meddling heavily affecting the direction a show took.

It just...feels that way to me, given the difference in tone. Like, Mike Jupp wanted a darker fantasy show (especially given the pilot) but something got lost in translation. Any idea how much creative control he actually had?

He was a consultant. He stated he helped brainstorm plot ideas and gags, up until about the end of Season Three (ironically just after it started Growing the Beard) though claimed it was Martin Gates' team that executed it all. The pilot from what I know was based heavily from his original concept story, maybe why it felt so different.

It's hard to say how much of the direction was deliberate or just oversight. After all Bimbles Bucket was pretty much a more stable rehash of The Dreamstone made by both Jupp and the same team of writers, minus most of the dark action element (or at least any insinuation of it existing) to focus on the light heartedness. There was also Martin Gates Productions' The Snow Queen films, which while not co made by Jupp, used a lot of aspects of The Dreamstone. They definitely liked this formula.

edited 11th Apr '17 12:11:14 PM by Psi001

Question: which stage of the Fandom Life Cycle would you say the show is on?

I'm guessing it's probably pretty low, since fanfiction is practically non-existent for this show. But on the other hand, there IS quite a lot of fanART...

What I want to know, is where are those viewers who gave the show the ratings it had during the original airing? Did they forget and move on?

Well, I personally was too young to pay much attention to television when the first season aired, and then I spent more time watching CBBC. I only really started paying attention to CITV when I turned 8, and by that time Bimble's Bucket had replaced The Dreamstone.

I remember watching it quite devotedly when it started, though after a couple of seasons, I started to get into that phase where the 'attitude' cartoons like Sonic the Hedgehog were cooler (being a 90s kid) and the cutesy ones got on my nerves, so I lost interest. I did tune into Bimble's Bucket odd times though (which is odd because it wasn't much better in that regard).

I think part of the reason I'm so critical of it now is because of that time in my childhood I was so enchanted by it, all the magic and cute animal characters. I come back and see how shallow that aspect actually is (though come to appreciate the villains a lot more like any older viewer).

It does seem odd CITV just dumped it (the creators even mentioned that was the only reason they stopped making it along with them taking the rights until recently). Maybe they expected Bimble's Bucket to be a bigger cash cow, though that was promoted even less.

edited 27th Aug '16 12:11:02 PM by Psi001

So, what do you hope they would have done if the series had continued?

Personally, I hope it would've ended with Zordrak being destroyed and the Urpneys being freed.

edited 27th Aug '16 2:11:58 PM by fruitstripegum

I'm not sure about an ultimate finale (though it would have been nice if they at least ended with a "Megattack" style proper face off with Zordrak). I just would have liked the show to have been used to fuller potential and most of it's bugs ironed out.

Season Four was a decent step in that direction, there was at least a lot more substance to the whole thing and the Noops were actually likeable by then. If they had made a Season Five it might have made been a pretty rounded experience.

edited 27th Aug '16 2:31:42 PM by Psi001

Hey guys, I was reading the Fridge section of the Dreamstone article, and I came across this little snippet from the Fridge Horror section:

Giving folks nightmares seems like a Poke the Poodle level scheme. However, you tend to lose sleep as a result of bad dreams and you will avoid sleep if you know all you will have are nightmares. Zordrak's plan could led to everyone being exhausted and being unable to resist his takeover if the lack of sleep doesn't kill them outright. To say nothing of people who toss and turn when having night terrors and could as a result injure themselves and others (this was in fact shown in some episodes, if in an obviously slapstick fashion).

So, I've been wondering - if that's the case, how come none of the Urpneys are half-dead from sleep deprivation? After all, what with living in the Land of Nightmares, the best they can hope for is a dreamless night. Unless, of course, Zordrak doesn't think it's worth wasting his beloved Argorribles on the Urpneys.

edited 7th Sep '16 8:31:34 AM by fruitstripegum

Zordrak was revealed to have Pragmatic Villainy, he can't really send out men half dead from sleep trauma to effectively steal the stone. And as you mentioned, maybe he and the Argorribles just didn't think there was any sport to it. The whole war seemed more out of a petty spite towards the Dream Maker and his followers for exiling him anyway.

The Urpneys had nothing against spending all day in bed at least. They were slacking or dozing off constantly.

edited 7th Sep '16 12:49:02 PM by Psi001

Well, maybe. But I gotta say, never having ANY dreams, good or bad, sounds kinda depressing.

Unless of course one of the Dreammaker's dreams makes its way to Viltheed, but that's impossible...isn't it?

I think it's safe to say that the Urpneys' position was WAY more sympathetic than the writers assumed it was. I mean, the heroes considered it a Moral Event Horizon when they got so much as one dream ruined.

The Dream Maker seemed to have a Santa Claus style regiment to making the dreams, since he mentioned making and sending them specifically to certain civilians.

edited 7th Sep '16 1:30:33 PM by Psi001

Y'know, we've talked quite a bit about how different the rest of the show was from the pilot. But looking at the "Dream Thief" pilot, I think we should be grateful that they didn't stick with the original concept, because if they had, we might not have HAD a show at all!

While the designs do look all over the place in the Dream Thief, I'm interested in all the surreal ideas it put on display. It felt like Mike Jupp had something far more dynamic and epic planned, like a proper Disney Animated Canon level motion picture. I mean I liked they made the Urpneys Ascended Extras, but I do wonder how all those cool ideas got made so non-existent in the final product.

edited 29th Sep '16 5:13:09 PM by Psi001

Well, I think maybe Executive Meddling had something to do with it. Y'know, maybe they decided that it would make a better TV show than a movie, so they made him change nearly everything so that the ending was more...open, shall we say, and they could get more stories out of it.

edited 30th Sep '16 4:50:34 AM by fruitstripegum