Can cliched plots be done well?

Since my story-building is rather unconventional, I've ended up with a world, and some outlines of characters, but no plot for the characters to be involved in. The premise is that three (very self-aware) human scientists arrive via A Form You Are Comfortable With in a tribe-like group of Humanoid Aliens. However, I'm not sure what happens next.

And then it occured to me: this setting is enough for me to do Romeo And Juliet IN SPACE!,*

with a human/alien pair standing in for Romeo/Juliet. However, obviously this is, by definition, Recycled In Space, and so "bad." Should I immediatly throw this idea in the garbage because of that, or continue on in light of Tropes Are Not Bad?

Also, more generally, do you think that it's possible for a work to pull off cliche plots/characters/settings well, despite their cliche status? What would you say the work has to do to be able to succeed at cliche?

edited 27th Oct '11 5:57:52 PM by Yej

Da Rules excuse all the inaccuracy in the world. Listen to them, not me.

Well... cliches can be done well, but there are literally a million different things you could do with this that are much better than a Romeo And Juliet clone, so I don't see why you'd want to go with that...

I am now known as Flyboy.

Yes.

Put a different spin on the cliche. For example a Romeo And Juliet Plot, simply flip the gender. The plot can remain much the same even yet the result can revitalize a cliche.

Alternatively, weave cliches together. Thread one into another into another to twist the one. Creatively cross and use them. If need be, deconstruct them.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

......*has an aneurysm*

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.

What's wrong? Clichés don't have to be horrible. They just need a little work, and maybe the end result might be such that you don't even recognize the cliché.

Like the Romeo and Juliet plot. It's been done to death, but a small change like Juliet joining the fight can freshen it. (You'd probably have to change the setting from medieval Italy to something else, but it'd be a start.)

edited 27th Oct '11 6:57:50 PM by BlackElephant

I'm an elephant. Rurr.

No, I mean it doesn't matter if it's a cliche or frankly the most goddamned ridiculous idea ever. It's the execution that matters and how are we supposed to know if the OP can do it or not?

So basically, my answer is yes.

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.

Any story — yours included — can succeed even if it's cliched. The factor that makes or breaks a story, in my opinion, is how much "fun" you're willing to have with all of its elements.

If (and obviously, this won't be the case in your work) you just say "It's Romeo and Juliet in space! Ha ha! Admire my genius!" then that's a surefire way to fail. If you're willing to give the elements wiggle room — fleshing-out of characters and the world, and events that help keep readers engaged — then you'll be better off. But I say "fun" because the object of the game is to entertain your audience; if they're not having fun, it'll make those cliches all the more glaring. Give them some interesting detail/development to latch onto. Make your characters colorful, and capable of multiple emotions. Don't be afraid to fire off a joke or two, mood permitting. (IIRC, even the original Romeo and Juliet had some laughs here and there, like with the "bite your thumb" scene.)

At the risk of going into a rant about why I rather disliked the campaign of Gears of War 3, I'll cut myself off here. Hope I could be of some use to you.

My Wattpad — A haven for delightful degeneracy

Absolutely.

However, I do agree with USAF here: the scenario you propose offers far more interesting possibilities then merely Romeo and Juliet in space. Whether you play with the plot some or not, if that's what you ultimately go with, I'm pretty sure I would get a They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot reaction if I read it.

It's also worth noting that "star-crossed Interspecies Romance" does not automatically equal Space Romeo and Juliet, which is part of my point above: while I don't know how interested I personally would be in it, objectively I think doing your own love story would be far more interesting then a famous one Recycled In Space.

In a word: Yes

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)

This is the plot that's currently sitting in my head.

1. Alien society is set up as in Romeo And Juliet, complete with warring, powerful families. When the story starts, this has proceeded to just after "Romeo" meets and falls in love with "Juliet."
2. Enter Masquerade'd humans, Alex, Betty and Charlie. (Placeholder names because I'm really fickle. It may also be that Charlie plays the role of Mercutio.)
3. Due to the masquerade failing slightly, Juliet falls for Alex over Romeo once she meets him. (I'm unsure how much Navel-Gazing this involves, but that's the end result.) Alex, meanwhile, doesn't realize this.
4. Although Juliet doesn't match The Chief's Daughter exactly, Betty is still Genre Savvy enough to spot the relavent tropes, and so tries to discourage Alex from continuing the relationship. (Possibly even declaring, "This'll turn into Romeo And Juliet IN SPACE!")
5. ...which accidentally causes Alex to have the expected Love Epiphany.
6. However, both Charlie and "Tybalt" have been shipping Juliet/Paris (i.e. Juliet with a minor character who doesn't appear in the plot that much) for political reasons. They sucessfully convince Juliet to back out of the relationship. (possibly leaving it as Friends with Benefits, or another scene where Alex tries to convince her to go all the way. I suspect that once I've written this far, force of character will show me which will happen.)
7. Romeo, who has been following the relationship, (possibly an exaggerated version via Gossip Evolution) violently confronts Alex.

...I'm not entirely sure what happens next, since it's half past midnight. (I also suspect Character Evolution will be able to drive the plot to a certain extent) However, I do realise that the above looks a lot less like Shakespeare's R&J than I thought it did. Has it dug me out of the Recycled In Space hole?

With respect to sillines, I think this work is basically diametrically opposite to the original: the whole thing is based on Beethoven Was an Alien Spy Up To Eleven.

edited 28th Oct '11 4:49:14 PM by Yej

Da Rules excuse all the inaccuracy in the world. Listen to them, not me.

All stories are derived from the monomyth, so...yeah. can't escape them cliches.

also, nothing new under the sun, yadda yadda.

Again, I've got to point out that there's a big difference between "everything's been done" and Romeo and Juliet, Recycled In Space. What you have looks somewhat interesting, but it's still awfully similar, and I still feel that there's more things to do with that setting, including more unique Interspecies Romance plots if that's what you want.

To put it another way, I don't necessarily have anything against Recycled In Space myself. I'll never write it, but I don't think it's a bad trope. But there's a big difference between deciding "I'm going to do World War II IN SPACE!!" and building the work around that, and coming up with a unique setting all your own and then deciding "I'm going to do World War II IN SPACE!!" The latter case is something that I do have a problem with, and I can't help but feel like that's what you're doing.

thread hop:

I think that if you did do a cliche well it would more be re codified in a way.

Then again take for example that stwitchero movie recently that was rate R.

I guess it could be done well if you wrote it just right and did somethign different with it instead of using it as a shortcut.

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

Could you elaborate on what else you could see going on in this setting?

(FYI, this will be the A plot, with a B plot about working out who, precisely, was an alien spy)

edited 1st Nov '11 5:46:37 PM by Yej

Da Rules excuse all the inaccuracy in the world. Listen to them, not me.

To be honest, I actually haven't thought of anything in specific. I just know that there's no way Space Romeo And Juliet is the only thing you can do with it.