Why isn't this subjective?: Longing For Fictionland

This has been bothering me for a while. Shouldn't the meta examples be the main focus, and the in-universe examples be secondary? This is an Audience Reaction, right?

That's counter to the goal, which is reducing subjectivity in tropes, not increasing them. It doesn't matter if you get audience reactions.

I don't see a point to the meta examples. I also think the description seems to fixate on the meta examples rather than the in universe ones.

We should cut the meta examples and rework the description to keep it focus on In-Universe situations.

But at least note this is Truth In Televison.

I am fine with whatever choice you guys make. But even tough I launched this trope. It wasn't my idea (I wasn't the original sponsor). I rescued it from being forgotten

The original idea was to focus only on Meta examples. I added the inuniverse inorder to make a trope out of it.

edited 9th Oct '11 2:04:09 PM by FallenLegend

The meta concept sounds like it's already covered by Wish-Fulfillment.

Hardly. It's Wish-Fulfillment's subtrope.

I don't see what's wrong with the meta examples personally.

edited 9th Oct '11 4:01:02 PM by Korodzik

Well, there's no real qualifications when it's a viewer reaction. I can say I want to live in any single work I please and put it on the page as it is now.

Not if it's not a common sentiment in a given fandom (and it's by no means common in all fandoms).

For instance (and sorry for even mentioning the show here) it is quite obviously widespread in the My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic fandom, and it is not hard to find people wistfully yearning for the fictionland.

edited 9th Oct '11 4:15:37 PM by Korodzik

A fandom for a series is quite likely to want to live in its universe unless it's particularly horrible. And look, Warhammer 40k is still on the page despite being awful. As an inversion, yes, but the point stands. There's no need to do more than say it's Truth in Television without having Real Life examples.

There is a difference between "man it would be cool to attend this magical school xD" (not this trope) and "I lost the will to live ever since realizing how wonderful is that nonexistent world" (this trope.)

edited 9th Oct '11 4:15:49 PM by Korodzik

I'm always happy to see meta-ness cut from a page so it can become a real trope.

Regardless, I don't really care to hear tropers go on about how awesome a fictional world is. We should just Truth in Television disclaimer and focus on making this a real trope.

Single proposition crowner to cut meta examples then?

For every Audience Reaction, "Character has this reaction in-universe" is a trope. Therefore this "reducing subjectivity" thing is applicable to every single audience reaction, and amounts to a kill order on them. Not the kind of thing we decide via backdoor TRS bureaucracy.

I mean, where does it stop? Do we go for Draco in Leather Pants next?

I'd be quite glad to go after the examples on Draco in Leather Pants - there are very few, if any, Audience Reactions that I feel need examples, and I don't object to cutting them in most cases. However, what I do object to is repurposing Audience Reactions to be about in-universe stuff instead. I wouldn't mind cutting the meta examples here, but I don't want the trope specifically focused on in-universe ones.

In general, I favor keeping the main page to In-Universe examples only, but allowing Audience Reaction examples on the YMMV subpage. Trope pages don't have a YMMV subpage, so if it were me, I'd cut the reaction examples from the trope pages, but keep it marked as YMMV so that they don't pop up again on works pages.

I have seen this trope used as an audience reaction though, with stuff like Avatar, Harry Potter and... My Little Pony. That's why people write terrible Self Insert Fics (and I'm vomiting a little just thinking about it).

edited 10th Oct '11 12:13:53 PM by hotrods4ben

Yeah it's the fault of this phenomenon. But this article has nothing to do with that

Well, I think the arguments have been made. Single Proposition Crowner to determine whether audience reactions may remain on the page.

We could have this page like the Crack is Cheaper page; it is a YMMV audience reaction, but with only fictional examples on the page.

It's limited to universe cases, so I'm not really sure why it's still under Audience Reaction or YMMV

"Not if it's not a common sentiment in a given fandom"

The problem with that is that there is no measurable way of knowing what the "fandom" thinks. I can claim all sorts of things about what the "fandom" of Negima thinks, but I would really only be speaking for what I personally observed about the dozen or so regular posters on the Negima thread of the TV Tropes forums. That isn't representative of the thousands (millions?) of readers world wide.

edited 10th Oct '11 4:51:17 PM by Auxdarastrix

For the record, 3 out of the 21 wicks were using it in an examples list as an Audience Reaction. (Warrior Cats, Avatar, and My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic.) Fixing them wouldn't be a big job.

edited 10th Oct '11 5:08:04 PM by troacctid