Rename, Misleading: Alien Space Bats

Guess That Trope.... Hint: this trope is not about Mynocks or other literal Alien space bats.

From the page (and Brooks' comment currently forms the page quote):

It's a preexisting term, and the page has some extremely good inbounds. The wick count is pretty bad, but I'm going to want to see evidence that this is being misused before I get behind a rename.

This has been discussed at least once before and while I don't recall the thread, I do recall no consensus for renaming at that time.

Seeing whats going on in other threads preexisting terms are not a defense for a trope name anymore and unlike those this one is a 100% misleading and has 0 to do with the trope itself which is simply the Alternate History Divergence Point.

Raso, don't take out your (perfectly justified) anger on other tropes. Though that would be a fine redirect.

Actually, it's a Supernatural Alternate History Divergence Point. Maybe even Absurd, depending on whether you read the trope that way.

Yikes, terrible name.

Implausible Alternative History? Alien Driven Timeline?

Oh if I wanted to take my anger out on someone I would make a thread on Trope Names from the French and make threads for the entire index because everyone likes to bag on the French . Actually I still might make a few threads.

Still Kuudere getting renamed so that gives no excuse for this trope.

This trope however is the most misleading name for a trope in T Vtropes history it's extremely limited usage is a good sign of that.

edited 5th Sep '11 11:57:07 PM by Raso

What we have here is an example of a trope whose name seems strange to outsiders, but which is widely accepted by the people who actually come across it in their genre of choice, namely Alternate History. It's hardly an unprecedented case, and I'm not aware of anyone demanding that, say, Zettai Ryouiki be renamed just because it sounds like gibberish to people unfamiliar with anime.

Again, I think we should be very hesitant to rename a trope that has brought in nearly 1800 people. Is it a nonindicative name? Of course, but so are many other preexisting terms. And I can't find any misuse at all for literal alien bats from space. The only thing I think is truly wrong with this trope is its pretty puny usage on the wiki.

I notice that it has almost no redirects, though - that surely can't be helping.

Actually, there are (were?) several people doing just that, though that doesn't mean they were in the right.

edited 5th Sep '11 11:40:00 PM by nrjxll

Looked through the bottom 15 wicks:

• The Great War - I have no idea, but it does have something to do with Alternate History, at least (confusingly written Unpublished Works page)
• The Political Officer - Correct
• The Whispering Vault - Unclear
• Time Travel Tropes - Index
• Touched by Vorlons - Misuse (potholed to "supernatural beings" in a context with nothing to do with Alternate History)
• Trapped in the Past - Likely correct
• United States Of Ameriwank - Correct
• Valerian - Likely correct
• Video Games - Likely correct (potholed to "convoluted" in an example about the Alternate History of the Red Alert series)
• Vive La Francewank - Correct
• We Are Not Alone Index - Index (link to page on The Other Wiki about the term)
• West Of Eden - Correct
• World War One - Correct
• Write an Alternate History - Two uses, both Correct
• Zipang - Correct

edited 5th Sep '11 11:56:51 PM by nrjxll

Yeah, I remember this one getting a pass last time on the grounds of "If there's a preexisting term, we use that".

.. nvm

edited 6th Sep '11 12:03:07 AM by Raso

Actually, current thinking about the "preexisting term" defense requires that the term is in widespread use to qualify. Take MacGuffin, or Mickey Mousing. They may not be intuitive terms, but they are widely used.

Alien Space Bats has Wiki articles not just here, but Wikipedia, and AH Wiki. Even excluding TV Tropes, Google gives it 400,000 results, the top share of which seem mostly on point.

Improbable Point Of Divergence sounds like a workable descriptor (and it also abbreviates to iPod)

edited 6th Sep '11 9:29:04 AM by Stratadrake

So make that a redirect then?

Alien Space Bats is a pre-existing term. That doesn't actually mean a rename is a bad idea, but it's better than most other options.

I generally object to renaming anything on the We Are Not Alone Index, assuming it actually belongs there — a few items on that list seem questionable, but not this one. If someplace that actually has notability standards accepts the name, what possible reason could we have for rejecting it?

It's a pre-existing term. Where is the misuse?

Also, it's not supernatural or even improbable, it's an impossible POD...

Edit:

From the trope page description, it's incorrect.

edited 7th Sep '11 2:47:13 PM by USAF713

Well, I thought "there's no way this can be an existing term". So I spent a little time searching for it on Google and That Other Wiki, and turns out that, wow, it actually is. You learn something new every day :)

That said, it really does need a few redirects.

Impossible Point Of Divergence would be the only clear, concise, and accurate trope name I can think. Opposing a rename, though...

Other people come up with much weirder trope names than we do. Probably because they have less to remember.

We've already got Fantastic Divergence Point and Improbable Point Of Divergence as redirects. Any other ideas?

Improbable Point Of Divergence isn't accurate to the trope, though, unless we're using it to mean something different than the proper usage.

It isn't "this wouldn't be likely," it's "this could literally not happen in real life." The Confederates winning the Civil War on their own is improbable. Steampunk is impossible.