Rename: Innocence Virgin On Stupidity

Total posts: [70]
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And a happy new year.
Even I, who have a terrible Visual Pun as my avatar, have to recognize that this title is a ridiculous stretch. It kind of conveys what it's supposed to, but it sounds as if it were written by someone with a very poor grasp of the English language, unless you happen to parse it the exact right way to get the Incredibly Lame Pun.

I understand there has been a move to split this trope that apparently died back in May. Whether we deal with that before or after is irrelevant, but I mention it here because if the split goes through we may have to think up two new names.

The archived discussion section and YKTTW history show a movement to rename from day one, so I guess someone forgot this one and we just never got around to it. Let's think of a better name, shall we?
"In the land of the insecure, the one-balled man is king." - Haven
2 DRCEQ2nd Sep 2011 09:19:53 AM , Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
wow, two trope repair shops threads active for this trope.
3 Antheia2nd Sep 2011 09:20:40 AM from Uppsala, Sweden
Is there any misuse?
And a happy new year.
[up][up]Yeah, probably not a good sign, haha.

[up]There's the issue of it sort of being two tropes in one, as is discussed in the other thread, so yes. Otherwise not really. Mostly the problem is less misuse and more people being confused about what the trope is.

edited 2nd Sep '11 9:22:42 AM by BooleanEarth

"In the land of the insecure, the one-balled man is king." - Haven
5 Madrugada2nd Sep 2011 10:12:06 AM , Relationship Status: In season
There's nothing in the trope description to make the Unicorns thing any part of this trope. They're simply shoehorned mentions.

Whether Unicorns And Virgins is ever made or not doesn't have anything to do with the non-indicative name.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
6 Deboss2nd Sep 2011 10:23:16 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I think it's mentioned under Virgin Power.

Unless I missed something, this is about when Virgins are portrayed as so innocent and naive that it borders on stupidity.
Trope creator here. Funnily enough, despite my original "change this name please" stance, few people seem too bothered about the name (see discussion - and I think some stuff was lost in The Great Crash. R.I.P.). It's just that those who do hate the name REALLY hate it. A year or so later, it seems to do its job - there's a redirect if it's needed, and the pun only really falls on its face if you don't know what "verging" means. Maybe it's an accent thing..?

Odd that I'd be defending this trope title out of the bunch. I suppose I just feel that the new renames are all becoming Exactly What It Says on the Tin (which will probably get a rename eventually as a result of it not actually having anything to do with tins...) to a slightly boring extent. I get the logic behind it, and if tons of people REALLY hate the title, it's got to go, but it kills the fun of it, just a little.
And a happy new year.
[up]I actually agree with you about the descriptive rename trend being boring and lifeless. I have a lengthy list of tropes whose original names were better (and it's growing every day. Stop it, people!). I think it might be an accent thing, because it took me forever to even get the pun despite knowing the word "verging." Anyway, the discussion page and YKTTW history made it sound like this would be a no-brainer, but if there's no consensus for a rename, we can just close up shop here.
"In the land of the insecure, the one-balled man is king." - Haven
9 Jeysie2nd Sep 2011 05:46:10 PM from Western Massachusetts
Diva of Virtual Death
[up] .......wait, that's the reason this has the name it does? That's the pun?

Here I have been all along wondering why this wasn't called "Innocent Virgin on Stupidity", because that's what I keep wanting to call it. I always thought someone just screwed up with the spelling or something and we never got around to fixing it until it was already entrenched.

edited 2nd Sep '11 5:47:45 PM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)
And a happy new year.
[up]See, this is what I was saying. I think most people don't get the pun and just assume the name has fucked up grammar.
"In the land of the insecure, the one-balled man is king." - Haven
11 Xtifr2nd Sep 2011 06:21:26 PM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Not only did I not suspect it was supposed to be a pun, but even after it was hinted that there was a pun, I couldn't find it until it was explicitly spelled out.
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
12 nrjxll2nd Sep 2011 07:04:33 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
Worst... pun... ever. And on this site, that's really saying something. I would never have even guessed that. If that's the sole defense for this name, rename it, now.

Although shouldn't we be covering this on the other thread? There's only supposed to be one TRS thread for any given trope open at a time.
13 Deboss2nd Sep 2011 09:16:42 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Somebody actually went and custom titled it Innocent. It took a good while to get that fixed, and I think we had to get Eddie himself to fix it.
14 peccantis2nd Sep 2011 09:18:57 PM , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
the flies will find you
before the darkness arrives
15 Deboss2nd Sep 2011 09:51:02 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Also, the description is a little long for such a simple trope.
16 nrjxll2nd Sep 2011 09:51:53 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
[up]This is a job for... Analysis Man!

Should we start up a crowner on the name?
If that's the pun, it should have a comma. Innocence, Virgin On Stupidity.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Like I said: Those who hate the name, REALLY hate it. The whole "this is your brain on drugs" hasn't been ingrained so deeply into public consciousness in Scotland (or the rest of the UK, I'd imagine), so that reference wouldn't even have crossed my mind.

Although...if you're looking for a trope about virginity, this comes up with a quick search. If you're looking for a trope on innocence, this comes up. If your're looking for a trope on characters who are idiots, this comes up. It might be head-deskingly irritating in terms of a pun (Worst Pun Ever on this site is an achievement to be proud of!) but it does cover all aspects of the trope; the trope isn't only "Virgins are idiots" but "the innocence that we associate with virgins makes them idiots." That's why the name has lasted for so long.

Although bits and pieces have been added to the trope over the years, I can't agree that it's too long (especially now that the image has vanished). Unless you favour tropes that consist of a sentence before giving examples - and that's what the laconic wiki is for. I'm clearly getting old - "Damn these new tropes with their painfully obvious titles and their short attention spans and their sentence long trope descriptions! In my day you needed a degree in English to understand half the site and tropes took an hour to type out!" tongue I'll be sitting in a rocking chair with a shotgun before the week's out.
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
[up]The name has nothing to do with the "this is your brain on drugs" advert. It's a pun on "innocence verging on stupidity".
It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
20 Spark93rd Sep 2011 04:56:18 AM from Castle Wulfenbach , Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Because people totally use the word "verging" in everyday conversation... tongue
Special trousers. Very heroic.
21 shimaspawn3rd Sep 2011 06:21:53 AM from Here and Now , Relationship Status: In your bunk
Yes, yes they do. I hear that word a fair bit in daily conversation. It's a common English word.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
22 Jeysie3rd Sep 2011 06:39:39 AM from Western Massachusetts
Diva of Virtual Death
I will say I at least understand and use the word "verging" just fine.

I just never made the connection that "Virgin On" was supposed to = "verging".
Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)
The name is fine.

The problem is that the trope description is describing two tropes.

The first is "Virginity makes you stupid" which fits well with the name.

The second is a plot device that is common with this type of character, about her losing her virginity and being promoted in wisdom, and a bunch of other stuff about other character types and plot lines associated with the "stupid virgin" character type.

The first is a pretty clear concise and solid trope.

The second is certainly a trope that exists but it's a bit less clear or concise what with all these various mentions of other items, without defining which are optional and which are required.

I say the second trope should be cut out of this page and sent to YKTTW to be solidly developed into a new trope.

This page then just becomes: "Virginity makes you stupid". At which point the name is fine. (Note that it already has a redirect "Virginity Makes You Stupid" for people who don't get the pun.)

edited 3rd Sep '11 7:04:53 AM by Sackett

24 Shale3rd Sep 2011 07:22:53 AM from Int'l House of Mojo , Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Mighty pirate!
I'm enough of a language snob to use the term "verging on" at least semi-regularly, and I still didn't get this pun until it was spelled out in this thread. Baaaad name.
25 shimaspawn3rd Sep 2011 08:22:50 AM from Here and Now , Relationship Status: In your bunk
Virgin on is supposed to equal vergin' on, which does make sense to me because at least with me local accent they're pronounced exactly the same. I have a tendency to say trope names aloud if I don't get them so it works for me. I'm just not sure if I can come up with a better one.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick

Alternative Titles: Innocence Virgin On Stupidity
2nd Sep '11 9:10:05 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
At issue:

Total posts: 70
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