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Reasons why we think Troper Tales should be removed:

 1 Haldo, Sun, 7th Aug '11 7:33:20 PM from Never never land Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
Indecisive pumpkin
I just came off a thread where a lot of people are talking about axeing Troper Tales for good. I'm making this thread as an official (well, sort of official) spot for those of us who are against Troper Tales to state our reasons as to why we think it should be moved off-site.

PLEASE NOTE: We're not actually advocating to destroy Troper Tales, just moving it off-site; Whether or not we move it away from Tv Tropes, it'll still be right over here.

To the newcomers: Here's a summery of the thread over-all:

The tropers that wish to see the migration of the Troper Tales to its dedicated wiki have offered several, key reasons for its removal from TV Tropes. Most of us feel that keeping troper tales on TV Tropes itself is a challenging endeavour, to say the least, because of the sheer volume of individuals abusing troper tales for their own purposes. While there are some good stories, they are rare, and as such, it would be an incredibly challenging task to maintain these stories, ensure they conform to the guidelines and remove irrelevant or disturbing stories. Furthermore, the amount of Troper Tales on T Vtropes means that more bandwidth and resources are required to host it. For these reasons, a majority of us feel that its removal would benefit everyone, including the administrators (who host the site; doing so would save them a fair bit!), the moderators (who could moderate more well-traversed parts of the site) and of course, the tropers (who, above all else, are getting a bad reputation for being associated with the negative things in Troper Tales). We would like to emphasize that this vote is only to remove troper tales from TV Tropes. A copy is still accessible at the aforementioned link.

I can think of two or three reasons why at the very least the archives should go away:

  • 1. It discourages new members. You've all seen the creepy stuff in the troper tales archives, and it tends to make outsiders think we're all like that. Thus, a lot of potential members get scared away.

  • 2. It's redundant. It looks to me like most of the contributors to Troper Tales just want their voices heard. We already have this forum for that.

  • 3. It's misused more frequently than we have time to clean up after. I won't name names, but even with the instalation of our new Troper Tales system, people are still abusing Troper Tales via Square Peg Round Trope. That's one of things that made the old troper tales so infamous, and I fear it will repeat itself too quickly for anyone to want to clean up after.

edited 13th Aug '11 2:31:58 PM by Haldo

‽‽‽‽

^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.
 2 Rottweiler, Sun, 7th Aug '11 7:36:31 PM from Portland, Oregon
Dog and Pony Show
EDIT: Troper Tales doesn't need to be here. If the vote to delete it passes, people are ready to move it here. Those who like it keep it, those who don't want to be associated with it have it off the server, mod work load is reduced.

How is this not a win-win?

edited 9th Aug '11 9:48:24 AM by Rottweiler

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
 3 Bobby G, Sun, 7th Aug '11 7:38:26 PM from the Silvery Tay
vigilantly taxonomish
Yeah, it's a pain in the ass to moderate.

Even deleting only the creepy, the psychopathic and/or ridiculously self-aggrandising entries is kind of time consuming, and even then there's very little there that can be called a clear, concise and witty demonstration of the trope, which is what the Troper Tales Guidelines call for.

Edit: An alternative wiki for troper tales exists here, and has existed for some time. In the event of deletion, troper tales could go there instead, so nobody even loses out.

edited 9th Aug '11 5:46:30 AM by BobbyG

 4 Ramus, Sun, 7th Aug '11 7:38:51 PM from some computer somwhere.
Lead.
It's also not covering tropes and media. While major real life events have long standing effects on media and often are the inspirations for said tropes and the stories that use them, personal stories don't.
The emotions of others can seem like such well guarded mysteries, people 8egin to 8elieve that's how their own emotions should 8e treated.
Micromastophile
We no longer allow people to talk about their awesome flat chests >_>.

Away on the wind~
It sets a bad precedent for not discouraging things like posting real-life entries in favour of moving the problem away from where the public can see it (Except they can still see it).

EDIT FROM A THOUSAND POSTS IN THE FUTURE

Before voting, please be aware that there is an offsite Wiki for Troper Tales prepared. If you vote to get it cut, the entirety of Troper Tales will not be lost, they will simply not be hosted on the tvtropes.org domain space, OK?

edited 9th Aug '11 5:45:17 AM by CyganAngel

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
It seems like a glorified Twitter,

While there are parts of the wiki which don't expressively follow the main guidelines, none of them seems as pointless as Troper Tales, especially in relation to where it's held within the wiki itself.

 8 Spaïn Sun, Sun, 7th Aug '11 7:46:04 PM from Somewhere Beyond Here
Laugh it off, everybody
This was originally the OP to another thread, but I mistakenly posted it in the wrong forum, regardless:


There are many, many points to be covered here, so instead of posting paragraphs upon paragraphs of why I and others think Troper Tales needs to be gone, I have copied and pasted the arguments of those others. You may consider this a petition of sorts, if you wish to.

For one thing, it's a bugger to moderate. Even being charitable and deleting only the creepy, the psychopathic and the self-aggrandising, there's very little there that can be called a clear, concise and witty demonstration of the trope. —Bobby G

It takes up space on the wiki. Lots of it. —Tropers/Idler20

It's also not about tropes being used in media. While major events in history have lasting effects on media, your personal life and how tropes apply to it don't. —Ramus

It's redundant as we already have a forum. —Kitsune Inferno

There are the obvious ones: the ridiculous things like not doing your work = Brilliant But Lazy. Of course, our reputation suffers immensely because of it. But my main problem with it is that it attracts all kinds of creeps because it's really a glorified hugbox, where you can pretend your life is some static work that you can be the hero of and easily apply tropes to and not, y'know, a life. Most people that post there are teenagers, and it disturbs me a lot to see they think that life is some game or anime. When they actually have to deal with reality they'll become even more disillusioned and delusional. So my main problem isn't the stupidity, but that it encourages an incredibly delusional life, the kind of life a lot of tropers already lead. —Tropers/gentlemanorcus

For one thing, it's a bugger to moderate. Even being charitable and deleting only the creepy, the psychopathic and the self-aggrandising, there's very little there that can be called a clear, concise and witty demonstration of the trope. —Bobby G

It takes up space on the wiki. Lots of it. —Tropers/Idler20

  • One: It hasn't showed any sign of improvement after the reformat. There's still questionable material and the ratio of said material in comparison to acceptable material has not been reduced

  • Two: It's a relic from its time. Rather than being useful to the wiki's objective, it's just there as a dump. This is the kind of philosophy that makes the wiki less enjoyable as it's basically just hiding the stuff we don't like rather than nuking it to the ground as we should

  • Three: We don't have enough moderators to handle this and as such, we should be using the moderation we have to more productive goals.

  • Four:It's just bait for self indlulging entries —Juan Carlos

  • It sets a bad precedent to shove problems, such as people posting personal examples on the Wiki, off to another area rather than deleting them on sight and discouraging any and all personal examples.

  • Moderating the Troper Tales namespace requires a lot of moderation effort best spent elsewhere. —Cygan Angel

I believe that Troper Tales should be axed as (a) some people really misuse them; (b) they don't really explain the trope or are relevant to it, partially for the reasons stated in (a); (c)waste of server space; (d) they are actually one of the main things other sites criticize so getting rid of them may help in getting this site some respectability; (e) seriously, some people put in the dumbest entries ever with potholes to Magnificient Bastard and stuff - I mean, look at the stuff in the old "Entries that make you go 'Wut'" thread. —Stolen By Fairies

In addition, Haldo made another thread in Yack Fest. To get the attention of Left-Side posters.

edited 7th Aug '11 7:54:11 PM by SpainSun

I spread my wings and I learn how to fly....
 9 chihuahua 0, Sun, 7th Aug '11 7:49:24 PM from Standoff, USA Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Writer's Welcome Wagon
As stated in the Wiki Talk thread, could you provide examples of problem pages that had entries that got flagged multiple times?

I'm half playing Devil's Advocate and half wishing that the Troper Tales pages for Team Fortress 2 and games like that stay.

edited 7th Aug '11 7:51:30 PM by chihuahua0

 10 Rottweiler, Sun, 7th Aug '11 7:49:43 PM from Portland, Oregon
Dog and Pony Show
"This Troper is a Deadpan Snarker / Badass Longcoat / Chivalrous Pervert / ad nauseum" used to be on the main pages. It gave users a negative impression of the user base. They were exiled from the main pages, where they're still readable and just as bad. Rebooting the section didn't help either.

Nuke it and we'd attract a higher quality of contributors.
“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
 11 Bobby G, Sun, 7th Aug '11 7:53:27 PM from the Silvery Tay
vigilantly taxonomish
@ Chihuahua: Well, part of the problem is that most of the time they don't get flagged, and I just have to scour the index in order to find bad examples and delete them.

I cutlisted the pages for Dude, Where's My Respect?, Teacher/Student Romance and Ungrateful Bastard today because they were almost entirely shit, FWIW.
 12 Rocket Dude, Sun, 7th Aug '11 7:54:06 PM from AZ, United States
This hat doesn't fit!
Well, I agree with pretty much what mostly everyone else in this thread said.

edited 7th Aug '11 7:54:10 PM by RocketDude

Tumblr | "Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel
I don't know if this post should go here or in another thread, but I was linked here from IJBM.

I think that Troper Tales should be spun off into its own wiki, the way Fetish Fuel currently exists.
It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
I dreamed this day would come.

This movement has my full support.
 
 15 Kitsune Inferno, Sun, 7th Aug '11 7:56:36 PM from East Tennessee
Jackass Detector
@ #9

Why should those pages get to stay when, as stated, there is a videogame subforum?
"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt." - Some guy with a snazzy hat.
I think self-indulgent entries would be fine if this section were moved offsite.
It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
 17 Neo Crimson, Sun, 7th Aug '11 7:57:37 PM from behind your lines.
Your army sucks.
On the point of keeping Troper Tales entries for the sake of people telling stories about experiences with interactive mediums such as video or table top games.

Why not use the forums for that?

EDIT: Ninja'd

edited 7th Aug '11 7:58:41 PM by Neo_Crimson

Sorry, I can't hear you from my FLYING METAL BOX!
[up] This, so, so much.
 
I've never seen anything of value on a Troper Tales page; the quarantine argument seems weak given the volume of This Troper I still find myself cutting whenever I do a wiki walk (i.e. not much less than I was cutting before the namespace existed); and the problem just seems to get worse as time goes on and the culture becomes self-reinforcing.

Cut with extreme prejudice. An offsite move would also be an acceptable alternative; I just don't want to see it here.
I will keep my soul in a place out of sight,
Far off, where the pulse of it is not heard.
I already posted my opinion so no need to restate it, but I do think moving TT to it's own wiki would be a good solution. Their moderation could be made separate from TV Tropes. Then they'd whither and die.

edited 7th Aug '11 8:00:00 PM by gentlemanorcus

On the point of keeping Troper Tales entries for the sake of people telling stories about experiences with interactive mediums such as video or table top games.

Why not use the forums for that?

Because forum threads get cut after a while, but wiki pages don't.
It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
 22 Rottweiler, Sun, 7th Aug '11 8:00:28 PM from Portland, Oregon
Dog and Pony Show
Oh yeah: reading the Troper Tales for "cool" tropes rather than creepy ones makes it abundantly clear that TT attracts users who think the way to become a popular contributor is to describe mundane things in your life in terms of a popular trope.

To wit:

"Whilst not as traditionally longcoat-y as the rest of these entries, this female troper has a knee-length fitted black sweater with a hood that her grandma and aunt made for her. And it is awesome."

"This troper is in a D&D group, where a friend that plays as a warrior priest has this. He recently got it made by a skin from an animal that we slayed together. It was a Werewolf. Not Badass enough? We did it at Level 3."

Is that the type of contributor we want?
“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
 23 chihuahua 0, Sun, 7th Aug '11 8:01:26 PM from Standoff, USA Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Writer's Welcome Wagon
Thinking about it, I'm now neutral with the issue. I originally opposed making Troper Tales into a forum (entries would be drowned out, more loading time, etc.), but I guess that's the only way to save good pages like Author Appeal, Writing by the Seat of Your Pants, Team Fortress 2, etc.

 24 Bobby G, Sun, 7th Aug '11 8:03:24 PM from the Silvery Tay
With Mod Hat On
Moved from TRS to piss off Spainy because it does belong here, really.

edited 7th Aug '11 8:03:39 PM by BobbyG

 25 Rocket Dude, Sun, 7th Aug '11 8:03:51 PM from AZ, United States
This hat doesn't fit!
@Glenn: To be fair, we have threads like the one for Team Fortress 2 that are fairly active.
Tumblr | "Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

Single Proposition: Troper Tales Redux
7th Aug '11 8:35:49 PM
Vote up for yes, down for no.
At issue:
Should Troper Tales be removed? Vote down for no, up for yes.
Total posts: 3,165
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