Character Development Thread--Discussion

And it's his continued inability to see the world/other characters in any other terms than that which makes him impossible to work with.

Speaking for my own characters - and it appears other characters are having similar issues - there is no sign at all of Vindex ever questioning his own assumptions or even fleetingly entertain the idea that his reactions are disproportionate to what has actually happened in story (e.g. the only thing Wolfe has done is match Valerie's rudeness in return and call her out for continued childish behaviour when Justin was frantically trying to buy people's affection for her, the only thing Sindar has destroyed with his Make Them Rot power is a piece of paper that was nowhere near Valerie to begin with) and neither Wolfe nor Kris, who both witnessed UD Justin's rampage, are going to be able to trust Justin ever again - who's to say that some minor something is not going to set him, Vindex or Valerie off again?

Valerie was quite happy to respond to hurtful words - comparable with her own treatment of Maya - by starting to curse someone. Vindex sees this as perfectly acceptable and attempts to justify it. The concern that she will react disproportionately to some other perceived insult is valid, as is the worry that Vindex will attempt to kill/harm anyone that displays any ability that might possibly threaten Valerie's safety.

At no stage have any of those characters attempted to "play nicely" with anyone else or even stop to acknowledge that others might have valid reasons to fear their constant reactionary aggression.

I'm not seeing a lot of "Heart of Gold" in Vindex, just "I must react with wrath because I'm a wrath demon, rawr".

EDIT: Feeking Page-topper!

edited 18th Jun '18 1:33:14 PM by Wolf1066

Oh wow, it's been a while since I did an action scene. I hope I can pull it off.

Ok, here I gooooooooooooo!

As Masterofchaos said, originally, the Mequoql-mind-controlled plot was supposed to be just between me and Masterofchaos. I thought I made it clear pages ago that I was reluctant for (but not ultimately forbidding) other authors to get their characters involved. (That's why none of the Web members have raised a hue-and-cry Torches and Pitchforks mob.)

edited 18th Jun '18 2:12:43 PM by Miss_Desperado

If not for this anchor I'd be dancing between the stars. At least I can try to write better vampire stories than Twilight.

Here, specifically the fact Valerie's attempted spell resulted in Sindar pulling out the same wooden straw he'll later use in the same post to destroy the rainforest medicine notice. Thus, for all Vindex knew, Sindar literally was about to kill her and then pretended like everything was fine.

Regarding aforementioned spell (which would of just made Wolfe feel what Valerie feels), that was purely for Justin's sake. It would require a lot more effort to get Valerie to lash out on her own behalf- Otherwise she'd either retreat into herself or express her frustration non-magically.

Vindex, for that matter, would only attack someone who actually attacks Valerie. Otherwise he would of tried killing Alice on the spot. So ultimately, you could insult specifically Valerie or Vindex all you want and never actually worry about an attack. Even for the sake of Justin and/or Vindex, Valerie wouldn't cast any harmful spells if insults are all that's happening.

@Miss: I'm really not trying to be too disruptive, and Vindex is simply just suppose to be a defense. Explorer herself is pretty much done, but if there's anything else she can do to help realign events I want to help. I mainly wanted to get involved so Vindex could re-encounter the Hunters, and in general showcase how he actually can be heroic.

"The Omniverse is the collection of all possibilities, and all possibilities must eventually come to pass."

Sorry for the really long post. When I start, I think I've got what seems like a none-too-complicated setup, then it comes time to write it, and it's like one of those magically expanding sponge toys.

Anyway, I promise there will only be one more post with David and Joseph to solidify their situation, then it's hands off until they encounter someone else's character.

edited 18th Jun '18 2:24:04 PM by Ryuhza

this place needs me here

@KK: Maybe lay off the barrier thingy and the invisible walls now cause it'll just get other characters dragged into this.

And I only said yes to the wall thingy because I didn't expect entire buildings would be involved; that's just gonna make things too obvious. Now with these and all these things neither one of us actually agreed too...it's just derailing things.

edited 18th Jun '18 7:35:25 PM by Masterofchaos

@kkutwar: Can you wait a few posts before bringing Vindex back in? I have a very specific herding plan that I'd like to see Mequoql try on the Not-Chaos Hunters before showing her face to them (hint: willo-the-wisps). Once she shows her face, I'll be open to Vindex returning. Let's see if he can behave well enough to foil Mequoql's Batman Gambit.

If not for this anchor I'd be dancing between the stars. At least I can try to write better vampire stories than Twilight.

What barrier thingy, where Vindex is trapped? Pretty much no one should be aware if they don't have relevant abilities that are sufficiently powerful. The invisible walls, on the other hand, only affect the Hunters. Though, being creations of Explorer she can easily adjust them.

Thus, the walls primarily only exist so the Hunters get confronted by Meq. From there, it really depends on how you want things to go regarding the confrontation. Explorer can easily get rid of the invisible walls at any time, and ultimately she wants the Hunters safe. So they'll disappear once you want them gone.

Regarding the transparent buildings, I suppose I should of made that clearer. Well, it is within Explorer's power to make them just transparent for Mael & Mequoql. When it comes to Vindex, yeah I'm willing to wait a few posts.

edited 18th Jun '18 2:37:18 PM by Kkutwar

"The Omniverse is the collection of all possibilities, and all possibilities must eventually come to pass."

Trouble is, Valerie was casting a harmful spell due to insults and none of what you write in here to explain what is "really going on" came out in any way in-story, all my characters got to see was: Insult Valerie or Justin, get aggro in return; hug Valerie or Justin, get a fucking great Lovecraftian nightmare in return, attempt to quietly defuse the situation and have UD Justin call for you to be murdered.

And then, after it's calmed down, Vindex carries on trash-talking everyone and growling/snarling/sneering every chance he gets.

If Maya had punched Valerie on the nose just for repeatedly calling her a jerk, she would be called out for Disproportionate Retribution. Valerie attempting to curse Wolfe in no way differs from that. You don't do physical harm to others (which, as far as Wolfe could tell, was a probable outcome of the curse) just because someone hurt your feelings.

edited 18th Jun '18 2:46:54 PM by Wolf1066

Posted!

Since Vindex is gonna be a while, who's gonna be next? As in posting next?

I don't know, I'm still drafting like crazy.

If not for this anchor I'd be dancing between the stars. At least I can try to write better vampire stories than Twilight.

As far as the group containing the Not-Chaos-Hunters themselves is concerned, it's WillDeRegio's turn for Carol and Lily, as far as the rest goes, I've lost track.

I want to just take a moment to say that I'm relieved you guys seem to be openly hashing this Vindex thing out. I personally don't have a problem with people using completely unpleasant, antagonistic characters if that's what they intend, but the constant apparent narrative dissonance here has made me uncomfortable about joining Adventure for a while now.

I'm interested in having Bonnie meddle in the going-ons involving Mael (Combat Medic sees a morphing metal man attacking an unarmed man, Chronic Hero Syndrome kicks in), if only to have her end up under his influence. I'd just like to be informed of plans before I accidentally spanner anyone's plans.

edited 18th Jun '18 7:00:00 PM by WillDeRegio

I honestly didn't think I would complicate things too much. Given I have repeatedly done stupid things for no apparent reason in real life, I really should of thought things through better.

"The Omniverse is the collection of all possibilities, and all possibilities must eventually come to pass."

Honestly, I'm really just annoyed that this whole hotel situation is really showing no signs of stopping. It's page 23 now and it's still going.

The literal only reason why now I'm letting Vindex run into the the Not Chaos Hunters again (in any other situation they still wouldn't want to be around the demon after hugging it caused it to turn into that) is because I want to give Vindex one more chance to actually show that he's not harmful.

I just wish you would actually show it in the actual narrative instead of explaining it all here but not...actually showing it.

edited 18th Jun '18 7:40:47 PM by Masterofchaos

@Will: If Bonnie gets mind-controlled, the Web is willing to take a crack at rescuing her too. But honestly Morpho's smart enough to include covering Mael's eyes in the process of cocooning him.

If not for this anchor I'd be dancing between the stars. At least I can try to write better vampire stories than Twilight.

I frankly got sick of how long it was dragging on after we were told that it was going to be dialled back shortly after Justin did his Fusion Dance, only to have it escalate to the tower of horrors.

That it's still going on is beyond annoying. I've had to advance the in-story time twice since the beginning of the hooha at the hotel and in Real Life, weeks have passed without any end in sight.

I'm at a loss as to what Valerie, Vindex or Justin could say or do to convince anyone that there's not going to be a repeat of their behaviour - they all seem to feel they are perfectly justified in their (over-re)actions and paranoia and if they're going to "explode" like that over a couple of harsh words and some hugs, how the fuck are they likely to react to an actual "real" threat outside the town.

I'm imagining Armageddon's going to happen the first time they encounter even one moufreta - and I, for one, would prefer just to summarily dispatch it and move on, not spend 20-odd pages dealing with another overly dramatic melt-down and/or tower of horrors.

edited 18th Jun '18 8:59:44 PM by Wolf1066

As someone who hasn't been paying any attention to the plotlines my characters aren't involved in, it really feels like this conversation is going around in circles.

Speaking of my characters, I've had a decidedly busy week IRL (Sister came over from the other side of the country for a visit; she just went home today). With that settled, I'll hopefully post sometime tomorrow. Or possibly sometime tonight. We'll see.

Icon by Civvi the Civilian!

Yome is right, this is going nowhere Wolf. I'm not gonna remove my characters, and I've already explained many times how you're wrong about them. The whole duel thing was suppose to have been faster anyways, but Eterna was a lot slower than expected. Everything from there was UD reacting to a bunch of people who shouldn't have had the time to if things went as planned.

"The Omniverse is the collection of all possibilities, and all possibilities must eventually come to pass."

@KK

The problem is the "supposed to" and "planned on." This is a roleplay thread, not a novel, we don't have the luxury of being able to plan around other peoples characters because they have the same agency in the story as every other character. It's why people come in with vague goals and backstories because the interaction and plot is supplied by the other characters and by design we can't know what the others are going to do.

I'm sure Wolf knows exactly what you're trying to do with your characters despite your insistence that he doesn't get it. It doesn't matter what you say "here" in the discussion thread because that isn't known by the characters in the story and therefor has no effect on their thinking. You can explain to Wolf all you want about Justin but all adventure!Wolf sees is a powerful unstable lunatic that's going to end up hurting people and is responding accordingly. (Only read the first part of the encounter to avoid metaknowledge about the other characters.)

In order to "tell" people in the story about these things you have to make it apparent through some action of Justin's or some dialog between the characters. Show, Don't Tell after all.

And like the others in the thread have said, we don't dislike you as a troper or want you to stop participating. We are trying to make clear to you that the assumptions you are making about how you can control the story and the characters you are trying to use to do this are conflicting with how the thread is trying to flow and irritating the other tropers.

---

Everyone in Chitara's Wagon have a turn talking? Is it my turn again?

Stoned hippie without the stoned. Or the hippie. My AO3 Page, grab a chair and relax.

So, I'm writing Smith's reply to Alice, and wanted to know at what time the sun should be setting In-Universe "today". Is 9:34 PM too late? Too early?

P.S. Killer Clowns, the sunset would be the deadline for Alice to transfer her restitution. So, this being Smith, the time should be precise and, erm, consensual.

edited 19th Jun '18 12:39:06 AM by Millership

Spiral out, keep going.

I've personally got no problem with 9:34pm for sunset - it seems to fit with the nice "summery" (summerish? Sumerian?) weather.

Anyone got any actual aversion to a 9:34 sundown? Puts the "legal hours of darkness" at 10:04pm by my (NZ) calculation...

Also, after my next post I'm putting all of my characters on standby till 12 pm.

Spiral out, keep going.

Hnng, I feel I should drop out of Adventure, and the CD Ts in general. I simply can't muster up the unthusiasm for them like I did when I started, and posting even once a month is becoming hard.

I am sorry, everyone. I wish you all well, and may still check things, but participating is beyond my current capacities. Bye.

"The dried flowers are so beautiful, and it applies to all things living and dead."