Man of Steel. Nolan Superman Reboot.

GL was filmed first because it rode on the success of Geoff Johns' comics retooling of the character.

edited 29th Jun '13 7:14:19 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

They were also looking for a good analog to Iron Man, a non-headliner comic hero with moderate exposure but can serve as a good world builder. It's hard to believe now but Iron Man has typically been well behind other Marvel properties like Spider Man, X Men, Captain America and The Incredible Hulk in terms of exposure to the general public.

Johns more recent story arcs branching out the mythology of the Corps as well as Justice League has helped pull him more into the mainstream but he is still behind Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and The Flash as far as being recognizable to the general public. WW has famously been in Development Hell for decades, Superman and Batman are in constant stages of re-adaptation and Flash would be one of the hardest Superheroes to work (the consideration of physics involved make a magical ring look more plausible).

The movies saved Iron Man for me.

Up until then he'd been Marvel's answer to Batman. Except where Batman was pragmatic and setting trapdoors for his friends didn't mind hurting peoples' feelings if it meant not dying when they turned evil, Tony was... kind of a jingoistic prick. You could never imagine RDJ kowtowing to the federal government, in any situation.

Back to Green Lantern. Was he really supposed to be a countermeasure to Iron Man? Is this a thing? Because if that was Warner Bros' intention, then all I can say is, senator, you are no Jack Kennedy.

It's weird because critics wanted this film to be fun and lighter than it turned out to be. And these are the same critics who preach True Art Is Angsty.

You couldn't tell? Green Lantern's biggest problem was that it was blatantly trying to be an Iron Man ripoff but Ryan Reynolds was not nearly as charismatic as RDJ carry an otherwise bland script. He wakes up with some random girl and bails on her, he's doing the whole slightly antagonistic, flirty banter with straight-man Carol Ferris but not anywhere near as funny as Downey and Gwyneth Paltrow and he goes on an unearned arc of responsibility whilst still being a bit of a douche, like Tony.

Honestly I'm glad that with Man of Steel they're embracing that more serious and thematic style of storytelling because at least that's clearly their forte, whereas Green Lantern was a bad Marvel ripoff and it showed.

Also Parallax is a terrible villain and even in Johns' run he was nothing more than a plot device to setup the more interesting stories he wrote. They'd have been better off with someone like Krona/The Manhunters.

edited 29th Jun '13 8:23:29 PM by ShadowScythe

Parallax in the movie was more or less a Composite Character of comics Parallax and Krona anyway, and was meant to tie into the classic weakness to the yellow energy of fear.

The only missteps I felt from the movie was Hal waking up from a one night stand (hurting rooting interest in the character from the beginning) and the complicated thing about him quitting and still having the ring. I think the movie could have benefited from expanding more on the culture of Oa (a deleted scene has Hal and Sinestro conversing at a monument chronicling the fallen Lanterns) and having Sinestro, Tomar-Re and Kilowog assist Hal in fending off Parallax (which was apparently in the script but who knows if it was filmed, that would have been a great climax).

I just had a thought, what if they tied Vandal Savage into Intergang? Along the way Luthor is posed to manipulate and take advantage of the rivalry. It would also be a great way to slowly introduce Darkseid for either Justice League or MOS 3.

I really agree that the entire first movie should've been more of a big introduction to Oa, what being a GL is and focus on a more personal threat to develop Hal's character more.

But I figured character development wasn't particularly high on the film's objectives. That said, their version of Sinestro was very engaging, and I think the biggest tragedy of the film being terrible is that we won't get to see him again since the film isn't getting a sequel any time soon and probably won't be reference in Justice League even if GL is in it..

edited 29th Jun '13 8:56:27 PM by KnownUnknown

Yeah, they should have gone just whole hog and made the movie about Oa and becoming a Green Lantern. Personally, though, I get sick of the current desire on the part of those in charge to liken becoming a GL to Marine Boot Camp. The point of Boot Camp is to condition recruits to become soldiers and to weed out people who can't or won't cut it. The fact that the ring has chosen someone means they've got the stuff to be a GL, and it seems any "training" should be about learning the rules of the Corps and how to use the ring. I'll admit, I did find Mark Strong's Sinestro a LOT more interesting and engaging than Ryan Reynolds' Hal.

I think they should have a Broad Strokes restart a la The Incredible Hulk so we can continue Sinestro's arc. Not necessarily aknowledging the first movie, but referencing Sinestro's past with Hal in a recapping way that doesn't contradict his previous showing either.

Maybe the GL discussion should be taken to the Justice League thread. Anyway, to me it seems like there's two very different ways to approach Hal Jordan's personality. One, there's the flirty, charming young guy, and two, there's the more conservative and responsible older guy. I really know very little about Green Lantern, and I should probably research him more after this post, but from what I gathered the conservative GL was more or less the original depiction of Hal, and the younger, more charming version is the one that seems to be used in newer adaptations.

I think the last time I've seen the "classic" take Hal is in Injustice, where he's quite a bit more gruff than I expected. But in most others, like the animated series and the other DTV movies (or any time he's voiced by Nathan Fillion) they go with the charming, Captain Kirk-esque personality. It seems to me that people found classic Hal kind of boring (and that was one reason he was killed off in the comics), and this newer take on Hal is a way to make him more interesting nd unique, especially when compared to the other Leaguers. As for the GL movie, I haven't seen it, but judging from the trailers I saw it definitely seems like they took it too far in one direction.

I haven't read many of the current comics, but I think Geoff Johns was going for a kind of balance between the two personalities for Hal, but I feel even that ends up kind of as a generic rebellious personality. Well, time to do some research.

EDIT: Okay, reading Hal's character tropes gives me a much better idea of how he should be portrayed. I think of all of his depictions I've seen outside of comics, Greenlantern First Flight seems to be the closest.

edited 30th Jun '13 10:18:38 AM by StarOutlaw

It's fine so long as we bring it back to the main topic every once in a while. Like I am interested in how Man of Steel was meant to connect with Green Lantern as they were both in production at the same time. MoS I guess had some lead time to dissociate itself from GL but I don't think there is anything that connects or disconnects each other. GL does specify that Abin Sur was the first, true Alien Autopsy they've ever had and Parallax was not something they could cover up. On the other hand no one specifies in MoS that this was a definitive First Contact, but still a big incident. Of course if Hal was on Earth at the time there is no reason he wouldn't have helped.

I don't think GL did anything that really warranted a Broad Strokes reboot a la Hulk vs. TIH. There was a solid foundation that was laid and still an opportunity to knock it out of the park, nothing like "Hulk gets bigger the angrier he gets" kind of stuff.

And while it didn't work out perfectly there was a precedence to have something of an Earth-bound story for GL. I loved Green Lantern First Flight but Hal ended up as mostly a blank slate because we knew so little of who he is, we were thrown into the intergalactic stuff too quickly.

Saw the movie on Friday. Enjoyed it heaps!

Has it's flaws, but so does every movie.

Superfights are super.

I just had a thought.

What if Superman's next movie opens with supes hunting down Batman.

I can't really think why this version of Superman would concern himself with Batman, to be honest, unless absolutely forced to. This Supes is more "averts disasters" than "hunts down lawbreakers" - I don't necessarily think this Superman would consider Batman beneath him, per se, but he would definitely figure there were better uses of his time than tracking him down.

edited 30th Jun '13 3:56:36 PM by KnownUnknown

Unless, as Clark Kent, he's assigned to write a story on Batman.

Batman would have to be posed as a threat that Superman feels his abilities are needed at the moment. He helps whenever possible but a random vigilante who has no recorded kills is something the regular police should be able to deal with.

Haven't seen the movie yet, but I thought this was really interestin'.

I liked Chronicle.

I wouldn't mind a script about Superman from Max.

Saw it. Liked it a lot. Didn't love it. Say what you will, it was way better than Returns.

Also, I know it's the style of the day to do multi-layered, somewhat sympathetic villains. I prefer my bad guys to be clearly indentifiable and not have some forced faux-tragic backstory designed to make me feel for them. They're bad guys, I don't want to feel for them.

However, when done well, it really makes for a better villian. Zod, is an example of when this is done well. Not since Magneto, have I seen a villain who I at once wanted to hug and simultaneously wanted to drop kick in the balls. Michael Shannon delivered on that point.

One more thing. Faora...is a cutie. Superman's mom, dayum! How do you say MILF in Kryptonese?

What was your guys opinion of a costume? I wouldn't mind the changes except for how dark it is, Spider-man is supposed to look odd or creepy, but Superman, (at least to me) always seemed to be a beacon of hope so I could of used a bit of brightness on the costume.

^^^^ It's rare to find someone who is able to express their opinion in a way that even if you don't agree with the conclusion you can respect the thought process. He had little issue with Superman killing Zod basically because it falls under the Batman Grabs a Gun trope. I liked his way of describing it in that Superman is an adult in a kids world and THAT'S why he doesn't kill. But Zod is another adult.

And I liked the argument he made about how a hero can't stand tall when civilization is virtually destroyed. For me the level of destruction is not a deal breaker because the vast majority of it Superman was not involved, but I understand the sentiment.

As for the costume, I was turned off by the initial publicity photos but grew to like it by comparing it to an alien ceremonial outfit. I like how the yellow in the S shield pops but think there needed to be a little more red around the waist to break up the dark blue. Otherwise I think it really evokes the look of the classic suit if not the actual design.

The costume could definitely be more colorful, but I like the textures on it, and the semi belt buckle is a nice touch. It looks stronger than the usual spandex, but it doesn't go for full blown latex armor ala the New 52 designs or what you see Batman wear. So overall I like it.

One thing that I think is a nice touch about the costume is that there have always been fan questions on how the costume works (specifically why it is as indestructible as its wearer), and having it be an alien creation is a neat way of hand waving that.

I also find it interesting that given the focus on Superman as an alien, that costume sort of makes him a Kryptonian Captain Patriotic.

edited 1st Jul '13 11:02:47 AM by Hodor

I could have gone with just the cape being brighter/more vibrant.

But overall, I like the darker version. And not wearing undies on the outside.

It being alien is nice, but it's not the first thing to do that. (I don't know if others have done the same thing, the show is the first thing that comes to mind)

I don't mind the drab colors too much, but I do think it would be nicer if it was a little brighter. I remember my mom hating it, saying "Why is his cape freaking crimson?" They could always take the Amazing Spider Man route and change it for the next movie, but knowing Snyder's previous work I wouldn't count on it.

edited 1st Jul '13 5:09:03 PM by Watchtower