Complaint-fest: Character Derailment

So the page has grown large enough to show up in the big page lock thread.

However, I figured that the best solution would be an Example Sectionectomy, since the examples are mostly just complaining about character shifts you don't like. Seriously, look at the thing.

I didn't get many responses from the Natter Alert thread, and I was advised to bring it here for feedback. Thoughts?

Edit: I messed up the title - the text should read "complaint-fest" and the article should lead to Character Derailment.

Edit 2 Thanks.

edited 30th Mar '11 12:47:40 PM by SpellBlade

That's how you wanted it, right?

While I firmly hold to Marvel and DC comic books suffering this big time, I agree with just cutting the examples.

Yeah, it can still go on the YMMV page for those works, wouldn't necessarily be a site-wide purge.

First we need to determine which examples are real complaining, which ones are stating facts but look like complaining. Then, we should replace complaining with facts, whenever possible.

Good luck drawing the line between fact and opinion, since it's a YMMV. And even then, being "factually true" doesn't justify complaining.

Plus there will be disagreement on if something is derailment or not.

Someone should make "How To Make A Fact Not Look Like Complaining" guideline page.

If all else fails, Example Sectionectomy.

Yeah, we need to make this objective again. Ideas?

This trope is so broad and so obviously made for complaining, it's prolly best to just cut the examples.

I just don't think it's worth trying to make it objective.

Not another article lost to Trope Decay...

At the very least, keep it locked and run proposals through whoever's on watch for this article.

What purposes was this trope supposed to serve anyway besides complaining?

It's a pre-existing term so it's probably woth keeping, but I don't see how it could be used in a non-complainy way.

Any trope that is negative in nature was proposed with complaining in mind, it's unlikely to have originated neutrally. Character Derailment happens but the ratio of pure examples versus those that can be debated is about 1/10, in fact Out-of-Character Moment sprung up because derailment should be something massive in nature and not just being merely the opposite of Character Development.

The reason this trope exists is that it's one of the oldest on this site, created when there was no YKTTW. At the time, because the troper population was much smaller, there was more tolerance for hostile articles (Wall Banger and Narmare equally old) because said articles would be short and often very very funny.

Of course, with the modern troper population, it's impossible to have such an article without it turning into a giant bloated mass and mess. We used to have a trope called Bad Yet Popular — can you imagine that surviving YKTTW today? After a few years it was renamed and revised into Guilty Pleasures, which lasted quite a while before it, too, got swamped to death.

I wonder if there should be a thread about this general issue...the older, snarkier tropes. Most of them are Tropes Of Legend and very useful, but it seems the time where they can work is passing.

I agree with cut the examples.

What now?

If we make it objective, the name has to change, as "derailment" invites the use of it in articles as complaining.

How in world could we make this objective? We'd need to change the definition.

Technically, it shouldn't be impossible to objectively point out where a character's personality has done a U-turn at some time in a work. For example, "in the first two seasons of Super Octo Pudding Gas Mark Seven, Alice is a mild-mannered Absent-Minded Professor Chaste Hero. In season 3, she suddenly becomes a Good Bad Girl Blood Knight."

And some will try to argue that it wasn't that sharp, or that the character was really like that all along.

Character derailment is someone changing their personality without any reason or explanation. Not very subjective.

edited 2nd Apr '11 4:58:23 AM by artman40

Character derailment is someone changing their personality without any reason or explanation. Not very subjective.

You'd think, but "reason or explanation" is variable. One person can see foreshadowing where another only sees an Ass Pull — and that's the only thing that separates Character Derailment from Character Development. Even there, is it necessarily "derailment" for a character to suddenly behave in a different fashion? To change their mind on something? Sometimes people do turnaround on issues for less-than-life-shattering reasons, is Character Derailment possible in real life? What if the change wasn't to a trait intrinsic to their core character, is that derailment? Ah, but what traits constitute a character's core character? I think this is a trope that has an objective baseline but it shades so quickly into gray areas that I'm not sure you could make it entirely objective.

edited 2nd Apr '11 5:18:37 AM by Tyoria

And that is where the problem lies. Character Development is a very objective, neutral "A character changes appreciably over time" observation. You can state with confidence and facts that show a Moe-ish Bookworm becomes a Knight Templar Genius Bruiser after 5 seasons. If it is done properly the change in behavior and skills are plausible and organic to how they started out but that is not what defines Development, any change is development whether it is good or bad.

Character Derailment hinges on that the audience doesn't see where the growth can be natural to the person based on their personality and their current situation. Even though you can argue your point with objective facts it requires an interpretation of those facts to be considered derailment.

Since the discussion page for Character Derailment is a hellhole and the article itself attracts natter, that statement is accurate.