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Apr 19th 2018 at 12:47:05 PM •••

Character Derailment is not about unpopular, drasic changes to characterization (theortricly, one could be derailed to better characterization), it's about unexplained, drasic changes to characterization. (Those given after the fact explanations can still count.) How well they're received is a seperate issue, with Shocking Swerve being the best trope for that.

The following have been deemed non-examples of Character Derailment due to the changes being explained in-story. Due not add them back without approval.

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Jan 29th 2020 at 1:35:18 PM •••

Honestly, if you are going to remove those two clear examples of this trope, you might as well strip all examples off the page. In fact, considering that this is Flame Bait, I actually think no on-page examples would be a good idea.

Edited by MasterN
Dec 11th 2017 at 12:14:00 PM •••

A mod brought up here that as Flame Bait, this trope shouldn't have any examples. So should the examples and examples pages be removed?

Nov 12th 2017 at 9:02:28 PM •••

I noticed that my entry for Homura (from Madoka Magica) was deleted for being “arguable” and “flame bait.” Question: doesn’t that apply to this entire trope?! Or did I miss something?

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Dec 11th 2017 at 12:05:54 PM •••

It was deleted because the trope only applies to unexplained changes in character, and the whole point of the movie was to explain the change. Arguments over how well it was done is a whole other trope.

Jul 8th 2019 at 7:41:51 PM •••

So where do I go to complain about how the “explanation” is a total Ass Pull that contradicts Homura’s prior characterization?

Aug 10th 2016 at 11:09:24 AM •••

Why is this trope marked as Flame Bait while Character Rerailment is not?

Edited by TheAmazingBlachman Hide/Show Replies
Dec 11th 2017 at 12:07:16 PM •••

Derailment attracts much more complaining and is much more subjective in what qualifies.

Aug 8th 2014 at 9:22:33 PM •••

Does Angst? What Angst? count as a type of Character Derailment? It gives little to know reason why the character with the angst becomes cheerful after just a few seconds of angst.

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Aug 9th 2014 at 2:58:57 AM •••

Angst? What Angst? is about people who are incredibly tolerant of trauma and don't experience angst. It can be an example of Character Derailment if the character didn't start off this way, but not always.

Oct 11th 2013 at 3:45:18 AM •••

If it's off Darth Wiki and now listed as an YMMV trope with examples, why is this still listed on the Flame Bait page?

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Oct 11th 2013 at 6:41:40 AM •••

Because the Flame Bait banner is unstable and has the inclination to disappear by itself.

Aug 11th 2013 at 12:39:03 AM •••

Removed:

It only counts as this trope if it happens in canon. Trope Decay is when this occurs for trope examples.

As others pointed out, why are there Fan Fic examples, then, and mention of fans using it? If you must keep it here, remove the things that contradict this statement.

Edited by 216.99.32.42
Feb 16th 2012 at 4:25:49 AM •••

Why have X-Men examples been deleted?

Dec 23rd 2011 at 11:39:07 AM •••

If this is an index, and not a trope page, why does it have examples?

Jul 18th 2011 at 4:19:52 PM •••

I'm still confused about this whole trope. How is this not YMMV?

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Jul 18th 2011 at 4:28:47 PM •••

Because it's not even allowed IN the YMMV section.

Oct 27th 2011 at 6:58:21 PM •••

It is now! And before anyone asks why, one person's Character Derailment can be a support of another's Alternate Character Interpretation.

Apr 19th 2011 at 5:12:01 PM •••

World Of Warcraft fans, please make this shorter and remove some of the natter. If not, it won't be going back on the page anytime soon.

  • This has happened a lot in World Of Warcraft. Players blame the inherent restrictions upon storytelling presented by a game where the player's perspective on NPC Character Development is limited.
    • The leader of the Blood Elves, Kael'thas, once a hero driven by the survival of his people and their honour in his initial appearance in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne. He remains loyal to the Alliance up until the moment his people were about to be executed en masse (to satisfy a warlord's racism) and joined with Illidan Stormrage (whose only motive at that time was to take over the demon-dominated Outland and be left alone) because he believed it was the only way to save them from magic addiction. In World Of Warcraft he is an Evil Overlord without any redeeming qualities, willing to sacrifice his entire people away to summon the very demon lord in charge of the forces responsible for the destruction of his homeland. When confronted for the final time, a horrifically warped Kael claims that he never was loyal to Illidan in the first place and calls Kil'Jaeden (the fore-mentioned demon lord) "master" with almost a loving voice. An often-cited explanation for the change is fel magic, which he keeps slurping down like water, but it's arguable whether or not it can entirely change a person's core being into its complete mirror image in six years or so. The game itself seems to consider Kael was always like this.
      • Kael'thas' story is a bit more complex; the original Warcraft tabletop roleplaying game lays out that while honoring his people in The Frozen Throne, what we didn't see was that he had turned into a Well-Intentioned Extremist Knight Templar in his battles against the undead, and was already starting on a slippery slope towards becoming He Who Fights Monsters. We leave him off in The Frozen Throne having agreed to work for Illidan and Kil'Jaeden in exchange for magic to feed his race's addiction, which is like giving an addict a fix so they don't suffer from withdrawl, and then we fast forward five years later. That's five years off screen of addiction feeding we didn't witness. People tend to get more than a little screwed up after that long.
    • Oh god, don't get me started on Jaina. This strong-willed, kick-ass female protagonist who helped unite the shattered remains of Lordaeron and forged an alliance with the Orcs and Night Elves. This lady helped kill her own father to make sure she honored the truce forged with the Horde and keep the peace the world had just fought so hard to attain. Now, she's just a mindless pretty face who parrots pacifistic stock-phrases at Variann's elbow and cries over Arthas.
    • Varian Wrynn, King of Stormwind experienced this in Wrath of the Lich King. In the comic series where he was the most characterized, he was a tolerant and compassionate person who was willing to put aside his views for the sake of peace. He was even best friends with a Blood Elf, a member of the Horde, and delivered a magnificent speech to his son about how kings who reign over peace are greater than those who reign over war. In the game, however, he's been reduced to a plot device for the purpose of reigniting war, charging into the Undercity and delivering a nasty speech to Thrall, a very popular character. Granted, many members of the fanbase feel that he was justified in his actions, but it's still quite contrived. Fortunately, in the recently released Icecrown Citadel raid instance, his persona from the Comics begins to show itself again.
    • Which ironically has players unfamiliar with the manga crying Character Derailment based on his persona in the rest of Wrath.
      • It's revealed that Varian, after fusing with Lo'Gosh, now has a split personality. Varian is calmer and kinder, if somewhat understandably distrustful of the Horde, and Lo'Gosh is considerably more aggressive and has the Defias as a Berserk Button.
    • Malygos, yet another boss that we're fighting because he "went crazy" or in this case "went sane." The Master of Magic and described in the lore as one of the wisest and noblest of all creatures, after his flight helps save the world during at the Sunwell, becomes sane again and decides the only logical answer to save the world is to kill everyone in it that uses magic other than his own brood and those who worship them. Yeah. Totally went sane.
    • Illidan Stormrage was a very multi-layered character in Warcraft III. He wanted power, but seemed to still have a heart to himself. However, in WoW, he's just "the Lord of Outland" and doesn't seem to possess any goals in his life except to pose a challenge to players between the levels 58 and 70. In WC3, he treated his minions with respect, but now he uses demons to keep them as slaves. He even attacks Shattrath City for no reason at all, even though they were both enemies of the Burning Legion.
      • It's implied that he started losing his sanity after being defeated by Arthas in Northrend. Your Mileage May Vary as to whether this adequately justifies his change.
    • Arthas + Ner'zhul = Lich King, total Badass and possible Villain Sue, right? Well, we can't have that. If this story made sense and he retained his clear competence (even Arthas was a pretty good general, even if he was way too rash and emotional), he would have beaten us down hard. So they appear to be have decided it's just Arthas in there now, and Arthas at his stupidest. And stupid in a way different than normal, sitting around and not actually doing anything. And more!
      • Latest Word of God is that Ner'zhul is still in there, after all. Two derailments for the price of one?
      • For those that make it to the end of the Icecrown Citadel raid to face him, the Lich King's Orcus on His Throne act is actually converted from Villain Ball to a work of genius. He truly doesn't care how many of his minions get mowed down by the heroes. Their primary purpose was to Darwinically eliminate heroes until only the best of the best of the best fought their way to challenge him. Then he would simply massacre them and raise them as his most elite Scourge generals, combining their proven power that no other force in the world could stand against them with the demoralizing factor of the world's greatest becoming its destroyers.
        • Not only that, but as 'derailed' as the character is, at the end of the day Arthas was a decent general, but had almost no experience, meanwhile Ner'Zuhl managed to lose multiple unloseable wars and took twenty years to claim his single real victory, killing a small group of sentient spiders in Northrend, and showed that for all his 'cunning' he's quite possibly the least competent character in Warcraft. It's not that surprising that mixing Arthas and Ner'Zuhl gives you the worst of both of them.
    • Garrosh Hellscream, who is introduced in Burning Crusade as depressed from being the son of Grom Hellscream, who is reviled by the orcs of Outland for having the orcs drink demonic blood and become corrupted, until he learns from Thrall that Grom sacrificed his life to save the orcs from that curse. In Wrath of the Lich King, he is hot-tempered, disrespectful toward Thrall's more moderate policy toward humans, and will not hear any criticism of his father. Let us demonstrate: Link
      • In the short story "Heart of War", which focuses on his development after leaving Garadar, it's revealed that he's quite upset to learn about Alliance encroachments on Orc land, especially since it reminds him of how the Mag'har were almost constantly under siege in Nagrand. Having not had any first-hand experience of the First or Second War, he believes the Alliance is inherently hostile to the Horde and doing this without cause, and he resents the notion that he, not having participated in the old Horde's atrocities, owes the Alliance anything.
    • On that note, Thrall. Garrosh was turned into a froth-at-the-mouth genocide, but really, Thrall is the person who dragged this sorry excuse for an orc from Outlands to Azeroth, with some help from us of course. Thrall is the one who told him about his father and revived his spirit. Thrall is the one who then, for reasons only attributable to his loyalty to the son of his dead friend and mentor, put him up as his second in command over much more qualified, experienced, and even tempered orcs, like Saurfang and Drek'Thar. Thrall is the one who, time and time again, merely growls a completely ineffectual "Garrosh" in warning rather than backhanding the arrogant son-of-a-Grom with Doomhammer. Time and time again, when Garrosh interrupts Thrall's attempts at peaceful meeting and negotiation, when Garrosh undermines Thrall's word and his teachings, when Garrosh openly mocks his mentor and his beliefs, Thrall just bristles and does jack-all. Talk about character derailment... what happened to the Warchief we knew and loved? What's Garrosh got to do for him to grow his spine back, force the orcs to drink demon blood like his dear old daddy?
    • Zul'jin was painted positively in several Horde quests in World Of Warcraft, he was depicted as hero in the cancelled Lord Of The Clans, the troll charge emote is "For Zul'jin." and the Darkspear have said vengance for Zul'jin since Warcraft III. Yet in the Burning Crusade he's turned into a hostile raid boss. As if that wasn't enough he isn't even treated seriously as an antagonist and his death is portrayed as a joke, utterly ignoring the previous lore on the character.
      • This is largely explained as Zul'jin still considering elves (as in all elves) to be his enemies and enemies of the trolls. Now that the Horde has welcomed Blood Elves into their forces, he feels that the Horde has essentially sold the trolls out and now considers them enemies.
    • Drek'thar(Thrall's old and peaceful shamanistic mentor who was willingly to negotiate with even Kul'tiras in Warcraft III) and the entire Frostwolf clan(one of the most peaceful orc clans) were randomly made into blood thirsty idiots for no apparent reason in the Alterac Valley Battleground. In the battleground Drek'thar is portrayed as physically powerful fighter dual wields Uruk-hai swords from Lord Of The Rings and says stuff like "leave no one alive." The Frostwolf clan is portrayed having abomination members, shown as feeding human flesh to their animal familiars, and wanting to summon some sort of demonic elemental with vials of blood.
      • Adding insult to injury, Whitewolf, in a case of Did Not Do The Research and Armed with Canon decides to retcon the story without Blizzard input so that the Stormpike dwarves were there all along and the "Evul" Frostwolf clan is trying to steal their land(despite not even the Alliance disputing that Alterac Valley is orc territory in World Of Warcraft and every other source saying the dwarves are newcomers). As apparently humanish races must always be morally superior to ugly, monstrous creatures.
      • Drek'thar's peaceloving nature is somewhat exaggerated here; he was a Proud Warrior Race Guy to the bone. He just wasn't an idiot, and was willing to stick to the treaties Thrall put in place. But at his tamest, he was a grumpy old man, and was fully willing to have Thrall killed if Thrall had turned out to be a brat. He was even pissed in situations where he was held back from participating in battles because of his value as the only shaman besides Thrall. In Alterac Valley, he's pissed about dwarves on his lawn(with reason, there are cases of dwarves wiping out natives so they can excivate) and, from his perspective, is using the resources of the Horde to fight off an enemy with superior weapontry. Using the abominations when you've got them against enemies with tanks is just smart, and using blood to summon an elemental(which is in no way demonic) is actually how shamanism works in warcraft; its brutal and ritualistic, but this gets glossed over due to, among other things, Gameplay and Story Segregation.
    • Suffice it to say, "but now he's crazy and you have to kill him" became something of an inside joke among World Of Warcraft players during the Burning Crusade expansion, given how many of the above examples fit the formula of "take old character, something contrived happens, new raid boss."
    • The entire Horde now. As well as Garrosh being an asshat, a number of quests in the Lich King expansion have gone toward painting them as evil. A number of people spying for the Horde are captured, and you're sent to kill them for failing, rather than rescue them. And Sylvanas, up to LK she was just trying to hold her people together, as part of the Horde; betrayed by the demon Varimathras, she fights to regain her city. In Cataclysm, now she's 'lulz evul'. The undeath plague created by Putress was done at Varimathras's orders, but during the worgen starting quests, she shows up and says to use the plague despite orders to the contrary.

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Mar 24th 2011 at 4:25:25 PM •••

Why isn't there a entry dedicated to Metal Gear Solid 4 cast wide derailment?

Edited by Ether101Prime Hide/Show Replies
Mar 28th 2011 at 12:55:29 AM •••

Can you come up with a reason that isn't an excuse? MGS 4 was clearly meant to be take that from Kojima to his fanbase and the over all OO Cness of the game is a big part of that.

May 15th 2011 at 9:18:26 AM •••

"No hotlinked images, please."

Huh.

Mar 22nd 2011 at 9:23:05 PM •••

I'm going to go out on a limb but I think the entry about Gwen is a little exaggerated.Yes,she did wrong by kissing Courtney's boyfriend and never formally apologizing to her.But it's obvious if you had watched the show she did have guilt about doing it after it happened and was even calling herself a horrible person for doing it.Heck,all her team mates san Cody hate her after this revelation.She deserved some a lot of flack but she did have guilt.Also Gwen only was going to vote Courtny out when she was intetionally losing challenges to get her out and that's why Heather sided with her because Courtney was losing on purpose.Heck,Gwen never trys to lose on purpose in any her challenges in order for Courtney to be eliminated.Yeah,she did a big one but the post makes her sound badder than what she really did.Yes what she did could be comparable to what Heather did but you are forgetting that Gwen did decide to vote Courtney off until the Australian episode.Hey,at least she wasn't a Karma Houidni like Heather was and got elimnated just two episodes after the kiss was revealed.Plus,she only kiss Duncan and didn't start a relationship with him until the Area 51 episode.I might be saying this because I like Gwen but I do admit this was way out of character for her and could be a result of lazy writing trying to the love triangle into action.

Mar 17th 2011 at 10:38:46 PM •••

Why didn't we go with the last picture in the image source?

Mar 8th 2011 at 2:50:29 PM •••

Note to Komodin: I give up with the Bowser thing. My last revoked edit was explaining that all the good guys suffered character derailment in the Galaxy. Not that it matters to anyone, though. I won't argue on that anymore and I'll just move on. I stopped playing the Super Mario games anyway, and now I've completely lost faith in them. But I'm done arguing my point.

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Feb 10th 2011 at 11:41:58 PM •••

So, I forgot. What's the good version of this trope?

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Nov 12th 2013 at 3:39:21 PM •••

There seems to be a trend, or at least a mindset, that reads "if someone went through Character Development that I didn't like, it was actually derailment!" Case and point: how many of us would cry Character Derailment if the Lovable Coward suddenly bit back and Took a Level in Badass? By contrast, if the resident Action Girl started to really break down after a series of horrific events, and didn't make a full comeback to her old self, at least some people would cry Chickification. Tropes Are Tools, and they're just like the Force; can be used for good or for evil.

Edited by 76.28.217.19
Nov 12th 2013 at 5:34:52 PM •••

Well, the comics section mentions Maus, that is a biography. And i am remembering that, prior to this receive the No Real Life Examples label, i read an example in Real Life mentioning formally cheerful and optimistic persons turning grumpy with the age and i am sure that Used to Be a Sweet Kid used to have real life examples.

Edited by 200.187.113.33
Jan 23rd 2011 at 4:44:22 PM •••

Semi-OT, but given that this is a supertrope, would I have to use caution in making a character a god of this trope in the Pantheon?

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Jan 23rd 2011 at 7:50:00 PM •••

The biggest problem you might have is that it's a subjective Trope, so people will not necessarily agree the person got derailed.

Dec 13th 2010 at 10:59:04 PM •••

Please do not do things like this.

  • A major complaint regarding Gundam SEED Destiny was the feeling that the crew of the Minerva were derailed from heroes to misguided puppets, simply because their opponents were the extremely popular main characters from the previous series. Take, for example, Shinn Asuka's shift from an angry but well-intentioned soldier into a barely restrained berserker and Rey Za Burrel changing from a calm, self-assured young man into acting exactly like his nihilistic genetic source material, Rau Le Creuset. The latter case is especially criticized, as it occurs within two episodes of the finale, leaving the impression that Rey's personality was derailed simply to make him look evil. Despite this, director Mitsuo Fukuda insists to this day that Shinn and his allies were the heroes throughout the story.
    • The worst case was Athrun forgetting all his Character Development in the previous series and having to go through it all over again.
    • This troper looks at it not as them just being downgraded into pawns, but instead discovering that they were pawns to begin with. Learning that they're working for the main villain is likely responsible for at least some of the idiocy, I'd imagine. And it's possible Rei's medication was changed so that he'd go nuts, and that being forced to "kill" Athrun and Meyrin drove Shinn over the edge, and he never recovered. No excuse for Athrun, though.
      • Sure there is: Athrun has PTSD. He's looking for something to believe in, and at first, is hoping that the Chairman will offer it to him. That's why he ignores all evidence to the contrary: he wants to believe that this time, he's on the side of the angels. It's not until Durandal tries to have Kira killed that he's able to wake up and realise that he's been screwed again. As for the other examples, Shinn's slow slide into insanity is negative Character Development, not Derailment, and begins as early as the first few episodes. Shinn goes into the war with clinical depression, and more or less traps himself in the following destructive cycle: wants to save everyone (due to his Guilt Complex over his sister), lashes out at the people around him because of it, breaks the rules, is reprimanded (but, thanks to the Chairman's interference, never punished), gets angrier and more depressed. His personality clash with Athrun, Stella's death, and various other war trauma only make the situation worse, and leave him completely dependent on Rey to help him sort out right from wrong. It's tragic, but hardly sudden, and hardly Character Derailment. As for Rey, his makes the most sense of all. His characterisation didn't change: he just dropped his facade. Le Creuset went through the exact same process in the previous show, losing his pretense of being Athrun's Obi-Wan and revealing himself as the nihilistic psycho he really was. Rey's doing the same thing. As the Chairman's mole aboard the Minerva he's had to pretend to be a nice guy, and Shinn's closest friend. Even then though, there are times when it's very apparent that he is manipulating Shinn, and deliberately driving a wedge between our Wangst-ty pilot and any superior officers. Then in the last few episodes, as the Destiny Plan comes to it's conclusion, and Rey finally confronts Kira who he's spent most of the show wanting to kill, he's able to abandon his mask, and show himself as the Lawful Evil Well-Intentioned Extremist he's been from the beginning. It's actually a much less extreme change than Le Creuset (or other characters, like say, Aizen from Bleach) went through and is an example of The Reveal, not Character Derailment.

This is bad. If there are any Gundam SEED Destiny fans here, you are allowed to edit this into something that can be put on the page again. We do not need the entire history of a character, in-detail, on this page.

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Jan 23rd 2011 at 4:00:57 PM •••

My apologies about the lengthy comment; I wrote it before I was aware of the existence of the discussion page and then forgot about it. That said, I still stand by most of my commentary, and in particular, what I said about Rey. He got revealed as a villain. If that counts as Character Derailment, then so do Aizen, Le Crueset, and every murder mystery villain's outings. And in Rey's case, it's a tame change too boot. Lawful Neutral revealed as Lawful Evil? As opposed to Rau who shifted from a fake Lawful Good to a revealed Chaotic Evil? Which nobody complains about?

Needless to say, Seed Destiny is so wildly disliked that people tend to overreact to everything. It's taken forever just to get the Character Sheet to well, read like a character sheet, and not a study in Hatedom.

Again, apologies about the lengthy post; won't happen again. But if anyone wants to re-add the series, please, at least re-read what I wrote (now that it's here and not breaking the page) before doing so.

Jan 24th 2011 at 7:07:08 AM •••

Regardless of the length of the explanation it still has valid points. Athrun was willing to follow the Chairman initially because Durandal was talking about wanting peace. A scarred veteran of the first war peace sounded like a good idea to Athrun. He had no reason to doubt Durandal’s sincerity until he realized that the Chairman was trying to control him. Athrun’s solution to finding out that there were a few uncomfortable similarities between his father and Chairman Durandal was bailing. Being chased by armed men really helped to cement the fact that his suspicions were well grounded.

Shinn mainly suffers from decreased screen time. Even from the beginning Shinn was prone to angry outbursts. One of his introductory scenes involves him angrily blaming Orb for his family’s death. The degree of his anger might increase as the show progresses it was never absent. Later on the main difference comes from the loss of the humanizing moments and the balance between Shinn in rage to human Shinn changes as the show goes along.

As noted by the person above me Rey’s change is even less dramatic than Rau’s but is somehow less well received. It would appear that the audience was suckered as much as Shinn was and still believes that Rey is a nice guy and he wouldn’t do <insert act here>. Instead of admitting that they had bought Rey’s façade they insist that the character has been derailed.

Dec 9th 2010 at 9:01:10 PM •••

Removed this from the page:

  • In Yu-Gi-Oh, Yami Yuugi and Mai Kujaku suffer from this during the DOMA arc. During Yami Yuugi’s duel with Rafael, he plays the Seal of Orichalcos over Yuugi’s objections solely to avoid losing a duel, even though without the Seal of Orichalcos in play there are no consequences to losing, and despite the fact that between the Yami Yuugi vs. Kaba duel in Duelist Kingdom and the Yuugi vs. Jounouchi duel in Battle City, Yami Yuugi had not only reached the point where his trust in Yuugi was absolute, but came to understand that winning wasn’t everything. All this, for the sake of some cheap melodramatic Wangst. As for Mai Kujaku, she finishes the Battle City arc as a truly strong woman who can not only recover from horrific trials, but has learned to accept that she can depend on her friends without coming off as weak. Come DOMA, and all that development is undone, making her come off as a whiny and pathetic victim who just can’t measure up to the boys and is obsessed with being the best duelist at the cost of her friends, who she suddenly thinks she can't rely on even though they went through Hell to save her! Again, all for the sake of cheap, melodramatic Wangst. The series does attempt to explain their behavior, but YMMV if it succeeds.
    • It is inferred that she suffers relapses of the High Octane Nightmare Fuel Mind Rape Penalty Games inflicted by Yami Malik that were designed to make her feel loneliness, and ultimately, claim her life. It gets to the point where she feels that if she ever loses a duel again, she may end up in the same predicament, and may not be so fortunate to have anyone present in order to save her. Needless to say, she is vulnerable to Dartz's mind games, and becomes brainwashed.

Discuss it here, and try not to add it back until there's some form of an agreement met.

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Dec 9th 2010 at 9:24:17 PM •••

Taken from the topic above.

Before I begin, if I come off irate in the course of this discussion, it is because I've already had to discuss this issue with another troper, extensively. That discussion is just a couple entries above this one, in case you'd like to take a look. That out of the way, my response to the latest reason for putting this entry back in follows below.

One, how am I the one being biased against Mai Kujaku? I'm the one pointing out how the anime's filler arc turned her out of character and saying that she is smarter and stronger than DOMA gave her credit for. Two, how exactly would Mai have been unable to contact Yuugi and the others? She knew where they lived, they had cell phones, and nothing happened in the gap between Battle City and DOMA to imply the existence of any sort of communications break down in Domino City. Hell, Arthur Hopkins had no problem reaching the gang, so what would Mai's excuse be, exactly? Three, you can't just assume facts that are not in evidence. That is begging the question. I point out that when Battle City ends, Mai shows no signs of any sort of lingering trauma, and you simply assume the existence of such to explain Mai's sudden shift in characterization in DOMA. That is not good argumentation. And as for everyone else's psychological trauma, let's go over a few examples. Yuugi, is almost killed by his best friend, and later has his soul almost utterly torn apart. Jounouchi, nearly kills his best friend, and later is burned alive, failing utterly to save Mai. Anzu, is possessed for huge chunks of the arc and has no memories of anything that happened during those times. Malik, is forced out of his own body by his Evil side and is later torn almost to shreds in the same situation that Yuugi was in. This is some pretty nasty stuff for anyone to go through, so what is it about being stuck in an hourglass that is so much more psychologically devastating than all these other events? Mind you, that's toned down from the Manga, where the hourglass was not filled with sand, but poisonous scorpions that would have eaten Mai alive, and yet she was able to recover from that just fine. Between you and me, I think Kazuki Takahashi has a stronger grasp of what his characters can handle and what their responses to various traumas would be than the anime writers.

That, would be my explanation for why the explanation proposed by the anime for Mai's sudden shift in characterization does not work.

Dec 9th 2010 at 10:46:51 PM •••

That you only mentioned Malik's penalty game seemingly disregarded all of the other factors.

She said that she did try contacting them, which would make it more of a plot hole.

Yugi may have been nearly killed by Joey, but that's because Jou was Brainwashed and Crazy. He may have nearly had his soul torn apart during the final match, but he was able to stay strong thanks to Yami being right there with him. More importantly, Yami won, meaning that Yugi was saved from suffering any game penalty whatsoever. Jou was traumatized coming out of the brainwashing, but knowing that what he did was clearly a result of brainwashing and knowing that he and Yugi would always be right by each other's side definitely made it easier to overcome. His penalty game was horrific, but the damage was much larger on his body than it was on his mind due to the circumstances, game of physical torture and all. (His mind was still left very much intact, and is what helped save him.) As for Anzu, that her memories were hazy is exactly why she wouldn't feel nearly as traumatized. As for Malik, he was Put on a Bus up until the Millennium Arc, and I'm guessing was preoccupied with coming to terms with what he did in giving in to his temptations, which he did before his dark side broke out and took over.

As far as the anime penalty game went, while it wasn't as bad as the manga one, she was still drowning in the hourglass, all the while subject to fading memories of her friends being replaced by feelings of loneliness and despair, the very fears Yami Malik targeted and preyed on with precision. In other words, unlike Jou and Anzu, who were simply mind controlled, and Yugi, who didn't fall into the world of darkness, Mai had been Mind Raped.

Dec 9th 2010 at 9:00:46 PM •••

Regarding this entry.

"It is inferred that she suffers relapses of the High Octane Nightmare Fuel Mind Rape Penalty Games inflicted by Yami Malik that were designed to make her feel loneliness, and ultimately, claim her life. It gets to the point where she feels that if she ever loses a duel again, she may end up in the same predicament, and may not be so fortunate to have anyone present in order to save her. Needless to say, she is vulnerable to Dartz's mind games, and becomes brainwashed."

Before I begin, if I come off irate in the course of this discussion, it is because I've already had to discuss this issue with another troper, extensively. That discussion is just a couple entries above this one, in case you'd like to take a look. That out of the way, my response to the latest reason for putting this entry back in follows below.

One, how am I the one being biased against Mai Kujaku? I'm the one pointing out how the anime's filler arc turned her out of character and saying that she is smarter and stronger than DOMA gave her credit for. Two, how exactly would Mai have been unable to contact Yuugi and the others? She knew where they lived, they had cell phones, and nothing happened in the gap between Battle City and DOMA to imply the existence of any sort of communications break down in Domino City. Hell, Arthur Hopkins had no problem reaching the gang, so what would Mai's excuse be, exactly? Three, you can't just assume facts that are not in evidence. That is begging the question. I point out that when Battle City ends, Mai shows no signs of any sort of lingering trauma, and you simply assume the existence of such to explain Mai's sudden shift in characterization in DOMA. That is not good argumentation. And as for everyone else's psychological trauma, let's go over a few examples. Yuugi, is almost killed by his best friend, and later has his soul almost utterly torn apart. Jounouchi, nearly kills his best friend, and later is burned alive, failing utterly to save Mai. Anzu, is possessed for huge chunks of the arc and has no memories of anything that happened during those times. Malik, is forced out of his own body by his Evil side and is later torn almost to shreds in the same situation that Yuugi was in. This is some pretty nasty stuff for anyone to go through, so what is it about being stuck in an hourglass that is so much more psychologically devastating than all these other events? Mind you, that's toned down from the Manga, where the hourglass was not filled with sand, but poisonous scorpions that would have eaten Mai alive, and yet she was able to recover from that just fine. Between you and me, I think Kazuki Takahashi has a stronger grasp of what his characters can handle and what their responses to various traumas would be than the anime writers.

That, would be my explanation for why the explanation proposed by the anime for Mai's sudden shift in characterization does not work.

Oct 18th 2010 at 2:34:02 PM •••

This trope's page declares (and emphasizes), "It only counts as this trope if it happens in canon." So why are there fan fiction examples?

Hide/Show Replies
Oct 18th 2010 at 2:40:10 PM •••

Good question. Worst, the page description mentions fanfics- that are not in-canon, obviously.

Edited by MagBas
Oct 18th 2010 at 4:58:56 PM •••

Fanfic examples should be on the Possession Sue pages, which is specifically for this for fanfics...

Oct 24th 2010 at 3:58:30 AM •••

Really, "only counts if occurs in the canon" and "Fans motivated by Die for Our Ship will use Character Derailment in their fanfics to remove the character from the Official Couple which is in the way of their OTP (or just because they dislike them)." are incompatible. One of the two must be removed.

Edited by MagBas
Nov 16th 2011 at 10:02:14 AM •••

Why don't we just remove Fan Fic examples altogether!?!?!? It's the only solution! Well...that and/or change the description a little.

Oct 2nd 2010 at 3:22:24 PM •••

Went ahead and removed this aside in the Donkey Kong entry

"But now likely as a result of mistaking him for the original arcade DK (Cranky Kong above)"

Look, I know the DKC games were popular, but Nintendo is the arbitrator of what counts as canon for the franchises they own. They can't "mistake" this, especially given that they were never fully willing to back the idea themselves. Every source that says Cranky is the original DK that I've ever seen is from Rareware.

Cag
Sep 16th 2010 at 9:07:32 AM •••

  • In Yu-Gi-Oh, Yami Yuugi and Mai Kujaku suffer from this during the DOMA arc. During Yami Yuugi’s duel with Rafael, he plays the Seal of Orichalcos over Yuugi’s objections solely to avoid losing a duel, despite the fact that between the Yami Yuugi vs. Kaba duel in Duelist Kingdom and the Yuugi vs. Jounouchi duel in Battle City, Yami Yuugi had not only reached the point where his trust in Yuugi was absolute, but came to understand that winning wasn’t everything. All this, for the sake of some cheap melodramatic Wangst. As for Mai Kujaku, she finishes the Battle City arc as a truly strong woman who can not only recover from horrific trials, but has learned to accept that she can depend on her friends without coming off as weak. Come DOMA, and all that development is undone, making her come off as a whiny and pathetic victim who just can’t measure up to the boys and is obsessed with being the best duelist at the cost of her friends, who she suddenly thinks she can't rely on even though they went through Hell to save her! Again, all for the sake of cheap, melodramatic Wangst.

Wow, talk about exaggeration... Yami didn't want to win for the sake of winning, he wanted to win to uphold his promise to the Dark Magician Girl. Not to mention the entry ignores all the mind games Rafael used to get him to play the card. And Wangst? Really? Is losing the closest person to you due to your own fault not a justified reason for angsting? As for Mai, yes, she was changed, but the change was explained. She developed a fear of losing as a result of the Mind Rape she suffered in the previous season, and the Big Bad used it to manipulate her. The whole "I can't rely on my friends" was a result of the manipulation, and the obsession to be the best duelist was a result of her aforementioned fear of losing. The only character that was truly derailed in the Doma arc was Dinosaur Ryuzaki/Rex Raptor.

Hide/Show Replies
Sep 22nd 2010 at 6:26:09 PM •••

All right, let's focus on Mai Kujaku first; ostensibly, she developed a lingering fear of losing as a result of the Penalty Game that Yami Malik inflicted upon her in Battle City...the problem with that is that EVERYONE at some point or another in Battle City experienced a deeply traumatic event; Yuugi and Jounouchi in particular suffer repeated traumas throughout the arc, culminating with Jounouchi nearly dieing after being burned alive by the flames of Ra, while Yuugi nearly has his soul torn to shreds by Yami Malik's Game of Darkness. If Mai is to suffer lingering trauma from her trials, than so should everyone else. But only Mai does, and only after the Battle City arc ends, since during the actual ending of the Battle City arc Mai was able to play a practical joke on Jounouchi where she pretended that she actually died, just to get a rise out of him. Hardly the behavior of someone suffering from deeply rooted psychological damage. Thus, Mai's "fear of losing" was fabricated expressly for the purpose of setting her up to be manipulated by Dartz, and thus it counts as Character Derailment.

Now, onto Yami. A major component of his character arc in both Duelist Kingdom and Battle City is his absolute trust in Yuugi, his belief in Yuugi's strength and conviction. This is not something to be casually tossed aside, and yet that is exactly what the DOMA arc does. Yes, Rafael does "play mind games" with Yami, but the fact of the matter is that Rafael is nobody to Yami; he's just this random dude on a motorcycle working for the bad guy. Yami has no reason to take seriously anything Rafael has to say about how "Yami was totally an evil dude in the past" or whatever it was exactly that Rafael did say, especially since Yuugi is right there to assure him that Rafael has no idea what he's talking about...which he doesn't to be honest, Yami's past as the Pharaoh was nothing if not virtuous. Besides which, while Yami may have promised "Dark Magician Girl" that he would win, he also knows damn well that unless the Seal of Orichalcos is in play, there's no real cost to losing. In short, the writers wanted to get rid of Yuugi in order to make Yami wangst, and so they ignored huge chunks of his characterization and development in order to facilitate this end. That is why this "development" is not justified, it is not organic, and thus it counts as Character Derailment.

Cag
Sep 22nd 2010 at 6:58:10 PM •••

But Mai didn't suffer(in the anime, anyway) from the same Dark Game and Penalty Game, and Mai is not Yugi and Jou either, so you can't really compare them. About her joke afterwards, it doesn't really contridict anything, these things can take time.

As for Yami, what Rafael is to Yami dosen't matter, as he attacked a weak point, Yami's lack of memories. Remember, Yami didn't want to play the card initially, he only did when he was backed into a corner. While it's true that Yami's relative ruthlessness and arrogance was addressed in his development, it's not like it came out of nowhere (even after his duel with Kaiba, he still nearly lost because he was too fixated on Pegasus). It's still part of his character, and it took very specific circumstances to get it resurface (his need to prove his lack of dark side, his feelings of obligation towards the DMG, the whole "we bet on our beliefs and sense of justice in this duel"). To me, this is just the final step in the Yami learn to trust Yugi plot, one final time that he doesn't do it and this time it really bites him in the ass. BTW, is angsting because he caused Yugi's soul to be taken really Wangst? What makes it different than Yami nearly giving up after Jou nearly died? That said, even if I disagree, I can see why others wouldn't like this development, but that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't come out of nowhere. Again, even if it is bad character development, bad character development and character derailment are not the same thing.

Edited by Cag
Sep 22nd 2010 at 7:38:30 PM •••

...They're all duelists. They all faced horrific trials and suffered greatly to get to where they were. They are comparable, plain and simple. And saying that "These things take time" is a handwave for the fact that Mai shows no sign of lingering trauma at the time, the exact sort of handwave that you said justified the claim of character derailment to begin with.

But Yami wasn't worried about his memories, at least not about them potentially revealing him to have been a bad person. To the extent that he was worried, he was worried about the fact that once he got his memories back he would have to leave Yuugi, and even then he'd already overcome that worry; again, who is Yami going to listen to, some random evil dude, or Yuugi? And it doesn't matter that Yami was driven into a corner, since losing the duel would have only been a mild inconvenience for him at worst, something which Yami knew. While there was a time in which Yami was ruthless and arrogant, the fact of the matter is that he did develop past that, plain and simple; He has nothing to prove to Rafael, who is nobody to him, his promise to DMG is plainly secondary to Yuugi and does not obligate him to act suicidally stupid, and quite frankly that whole "bet our beliefs and sense of justice" is just plain silly given that again Rafael is nobody to Yami, and thus no one that he would make such a bet with in the first place. Furthermore, the fact of the matter is that this is not and can not be the "final step" in Yami's development regarding trusting Yuugi, due to the fact that DOMA is filler. As in, it can have no meaningful impact on canon and was not part of the original author, Kazuki Takahashi's, plan. The "final step" was in the Yuugi vs. Jounouchi duel in Battle City, in which Yami trusts Yuugi absolutely and allows him to place the Millennium Puzzle around Jounouchi's neck. There's nothing left to be developed about that, there's no room for doubt regarding Yami's trust in Yuugi, and thus DOMA completely misses the point for the sake of wangst. And yes, it is wangst; it is badly written and over the top. The difference with the incident where Jounouchi nearly died, is that Yami's angst is understated, and is resolved once the Millennium Tauk shows him the vision that reminds him of his promise with Jounouchi. By contrast, Yami's constant wailing of "AIBOUUUUU!!!" in DOMA is too melodramatic to be taken seriously. Thus, wangst. Thus, DOMA was badly written and featured Character Derailment for both Yami and Mai.

Cag
Sep 23rd 2010 at 4:59:20 AM •••

So what? They're still different people, just because they're all duelists doesn't that they will all react in the same way(and again, they didn't face the same thing). Doma actually does brings up the question what happened to Mai after Battle City, and answers it. So it doesn't come out of nowhere, and therefore it's not derailment.

But they provided a good reason for him to be worried once it was brought up, one of the few memories that Yami has about the past it the vision of a destroyied city, for all he knows, he could have been the one that have done that. Rafael is not just "random evil dude", he is part of an age old organization that knows about the past, and he already proven himself to be honorable, both by his dueling and by releasing Prof. Hopkins before Yami even got there. Also, Yami wasn't a very nice guy when he was first released. So he had a good reason to be insecure about it. Doma being filler is meaningless, because we are talking about the anime, not the manga, and anime made plenty of changes to the original work. And Adaptation Decay do not count as character derailment. Again, Yami's ruthlessness and arrogance are still part of him, so they do not come out of nowhere, and it took very specific circumstances to get them to resurface. And if it didn't came out of nowhere, then it's not derailment by definition, no matter how badly written you think it is. As for the wangst part, Yugi is closer to Yami than Jou and this time it really was Yami's fault, it's only natural that he will react worse. Other than that, the only real difference is the time that took them to get over it, as both cases required outside interference(the Tauk in Jou's case, the Yugi/Yami battle at the stone wilderness in Yugi 's case).

Edited by Cag
Sep 23rd 2010 at 12:05:37 PM •••

They don't have to be the same people and face the same exact situations in order to be comparable; they're all duelists and therefore share in significant personality traits (most notably, they are fighters who don't give in), and they all faced horrific near death scenarios. Which means that, yes, they can be compared. Insisting otherwise is just perverse at this point, since that would make it near impossible to analyze characters in any situation. And before DOMA came along, there was no question about Mai after Battle City, any more than there was any question about what happened to the Ishtars or to Seto Kaiba, or to Shizuka Kawai even. DOMA "raised" the question by projecting issues onto Mai which were not present in the original manga canon, and insisting that they didn't kick in until after she was conveniently off screen is a handwave, plain and simple. So yes, this is character derailment; a sudden shift in characterization that is not the product of organic character development.

But why would he even think that? Even at the beginning of the original manga, just after he'd been released from his 3,000 year imprisonment in the Millennium Puzzle, he didn't do anything like that; at worst, he killed people who were threatening the lives and safety of his friends, and even then he didn't do it that often. At worst, in his early days Yami was an Anti-Hero, hardly the sort of guy who'd destroy an entire city that he ruled over. And if we're going to treat the Anime as being an entirely separate continuity from the original manga, then the whole 'lingering fear that he really is totally evil' makes even less sense, since the anime significantly toned down Yami's character in the first place. And why would Rafael being part of ancient organization dedicated to destroying the world make him more likely to listen to him, as opposed to less? Again, you keep saying "specific circumstances", and I keep pointing out that by the end of Duelist Kingdom, Yami's arrogance and ruthlessness had been resolved. So yes, the "issues" that Rafael "exploited" did in fact come out of nowhere, and therefore count as character derailment; specifically, Yami's character development is ignored in order to make him act out of character and do something that he would never do other wise, simply so that he can wangst over his AIBOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!! And yes, it is Wangst; it was badly written and melodramatic, which qualifies it as wangst.

Plain and simple, DOMA was badly written, and part of that was the radical alteration in Mai and Yami's characterization that was not born of any sort of organic character development, but because the writers believed that "True Art Is Angsty" and therefore decided to change them accordingly.

Cag
Sep 23rd 2010 at 12:59:55 PM •••

They may not have to be identical to compare them, but they do have to identical to expect the same result. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you misunderstood me, I didn't mean raise the question as adding a plot about what happened to Mai after Battle City, I meant it as it raises the question why does Mai acts like she does in Doma and answers it. If you disagree with the answer that's your opinion and it's fine, but that doesn't change the fact that there is an answer, so it's not an unexplained change, and therefore not derailment.

Because as far as he knows, Rafael has the knowlegde that he doesn't. That is not enough for him to believe him(which he doesn't), but it is enough to cause him to have self doubts. And how does it comes out of nowhere if it based on characteristics that Yami did show in the past and on a vision that he did saw? I keep saying there were specific circumstances because it shows that the resurfacing of those traits had a reason, if he played the seal the second he got it I would have agreed with you, but he didn't. Again, if you disagree with the reason that doesn't make it character derailment, because character derailment means that the change has no reason at all. As for the manga and anime, I'm pretty sure that the early volumes of the manga are supposed to be canon to the anime, but even if they're not, those traits were still shown in the anime. And wangst is when the angst is not justifed, in this case it is.

Basically, my point is that in order for those two to be classified as derailment, there has to be no reason for why they behaved like they did. In this case there is a reason, so whether we agree with the reason or not, we can't call it character derailment.

Sep 23rd 2010 at 1:40:32 PM •••

I can tell that this isn't going to get anywhere; by your standard, so long as there is any explanation for a change in characterization, regardless of how badly written, poorly contrived, or just plain lacking in ability to actually explain the proposed change, then it can't be character derailment. But I am hard pressed to imagine that any example on this page could meet that standard, since a literally spontaneous and unprovoked change in characterization. Besides which, for Mai and Yami's behavior in DOMA to make sense, one must ignore most, if not all of the character development they recieved throughout Duelist Kingdom and Battle City; post Battle-City Mai knows deep down that she can rely upon her friends for anything, and as such there is nothing that Dartz or any other random nut-job could say that would convince her other wise, while Yami again trusts Yuugi absolutely and as such there is nothing that Rafael or any other random evil bad guy could say to him that could over ride that trust. And again, for all that Rafael is "honorable", Yami knows that he's part of a cult that, among other things, stole the Egyptian God cards from him; he himself has played mind games in the past, he's not going to fall victim to one by someone he has no reason to trust or listen to in the first place.

In short, I'll add a YMMV, which is strictly speaking unnecessary considering that this is expressly a subjective trope and therefore YMMV by default, to my entry, but that's the only concession I will make.

Cag
Sep 23rd 2010 at 2:13:32 PM •••

Of course not every explanation is enough, the explanation has to have something to do with their past characterization and the things that happend to them. In both cases, it does. Mai was mind raped by Malik, Yami did show those traits in the past. And in both cases there was an explanation for their behavior. Mai did think she could rely on her friends before she was manipulated (almost too much in fact, "Help me, Jounouchi") and she could be manipulated because she was vulnerable at the time. And it wasn't just Rafael that caused Yami to play the card, and he didn't really trust him either, it was his words plus the vision and past events that caused him to doubt in himself, without those, Rafael's words would really be meaningless to him. But I guess we could really go on forever about this, so fair enough.

EDIT: Would it be ok if I'll change the YMMV bit to: "The series does attempt to explain their Behavior, But YMMV if it succeeds." or something like that?

Edited by Cag
Oct 27th 2011 at 6:53:59 PM •••

Is it just me, or has this gone on waaaaaay too long?

Sep 12th 2010 at 11:15:09 PM •••

Gul Dukat should get more of a treatment here. In the first couple seasons of DS 9 he is quite an interesting character. Most of his dialoge drips with cynicism, and it is quite clear that he no more buys into the Cardassian party line than to any other. His moral ambiguity and implied comnplexity were really promising, and in stark contrast to the rather cardboard performances of most of the other players. In one of many, many instances where the writers of that show failed to pick up on the nuances the actors added to the performance, he was subsequently shoehorned into the ming-the-merciless (or whatever trope it should be) generic baddy role, with all of the hero taunting and evil laughs. Did he have a white cat? I can't remember...

Jun 13th 2010 at 10:20:44 PM •••

I'm bringing this one entry from the archived discussion...

  • Nerem: I'm cutting out Lamia Loveless because half of it had no point in her being an Action Girl and it also misconstrues a lot of events to make her seem like a Distressed Damsel when really, she was Brainwashed And Crazy from them controlling her through her cybernetics. That at one point she breaks free from. And she also survived being hit by a powerful attack without her mecha. And kicked the party's ass multiple times. That's some distressed damsel. She's an Action Girl still, just one for the bad guys. ... also, I'm leery of the Dynamis example, as its not even the same Dynamis from SRWR, but an Alt Universe one.

Well, judging from what I learned from other forums... well, THIS is the derailment:

  • However, Lamia, has gone from fighting blowing her self up to keep her allies, telling her creator about her journey and ultimately coming back to the ATX Team, as well as in the O Gs version, at least praised by Axel. (In OG 2, Axel was disgusted by this if I rmb). She was in O Gs 2.5, Killed off, then in OGG, revived in about 9 stages saying Lamia Loveless didn't exist, and that she's only known as W17, (also remember that OGG is a pretty short game, 36 stages in total), and although happy to see them, cannot even fight against her new programming 4 stages later, even with friends and allies trying to convince her, and ultimately tries to use Code ATA, on her own allies with only Axel, who found it quite pitiful that Lamia as Lemon's hope turned into, and used Code DTD (he could have destroyed her, but in context, I think he didn't to, cause not only was it Lemon's Legacy, he'd prefer not to have a possible second Beowulf appear). During this, she finally says that her only regret was wanting to be more then just a W-Number, a huge contrast compared to the Events of OG 2 where she was not only manage to accomplish Lemon's dream, but somewhat impress Axel as well and be more then a W-Number. She barely can even say her regrets, or should I say, attempts to fight back the programming in her final ends, resulting in Axel having to save her on his own, something that Lamia in OG 2 would at least use every strength of will to stand up against. I mean, the fact that in the next stage, Lamia states that she heard his voice, feeling a place to belong to is just a bad fix, I'm sure she might have reflected, but the fact that she was one of the three W-Series that Lemon was proud of finding their own resolution and will come down to someone regretting and leaving it to fate is very disappointing. I mean, they showed, one part, where her AI tries to self scan in attempt to repair... but they decide to slap a fail into it, and never gave a second chance to try to revert, let alone shows failure to invoke human will.

  • Kyosuke on the contrary, experienced similar frets in OG 2 with Excellens. So, it wasn't completely whipped out to make him a Angst stick, though they did set it up, so he'd be a lot more down and fret when Lamia comes back. It's not like he didn't have resolve, let alone, I don't know how it would make any sense for someone not to be like that if someone you thought was dead is now against you, after all Kyosuke is not cold/antisocial exactly within himself as we can see him being quite hotblooded at times, I would have been much more sadder if Kyosuke decided to kill her. Lamia was definitely the one who was... shafted is what I would say. Even Excellens, and Ouka, another example of being controlled at one point manage to somewhat fight back unlike Lamia.

  • If we compared this to the Reversal Events, with Master Asia, he has a sense of self int he very least, despite having his actions controlled. He can even ask Domon to kill him, unlike Lamia who isn't phased by the fact that the group is trying to save her, at least when she talks, let alone. The fact that Axel is disappointed is just a big whack to everything that happen in O Gs OG 2 events.

And I wasn't the one who posted all that!

So... is it still not fine to say that she got hit with Character Derailment?

Edited by ChrisX
May 19th 2010 at 10:31:14 AM •••

Should the whole conversation about EVA even be on this page? It's huge, and feels more like natter then actual entries.

Edited by premier666 Hide/Show Replies
Feb 18th 2011 at 4:51:49 PM •••

Yeah, Shinji in The End of Evangelion could be considered a character derailment, especially the comatose masturbation scene and the pathetic shell the he was in Misato's last moments.

May 7th 2010 at 8:06:30 PM •••

Is it just me, or do a LOT of the examples on this page (e.g. almost all of those in Film) fall under Adaptation Decay rather than this?

Hide/Show Replies
Jun 5th 2010 at 5:00:55 PM •••

The Star Wars examples falls within this trope, but yeah... Everything else looks more like decay than derailment.

Edited by Sidewinder
Jun 11th 2010 at 2:32:00 PM •••

Deleted all Film examples for this reason.

Apr 21st 2010 at 2:52:27 PM •••

Removed the Cyric entry for being blatantly false. Even before he ascended to godhood and became a Complete Monster, he was a ruthless, greedy and selfish thief.

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