How Disturbing Is This?

Ok, I'm designing a Big Bad for my story and I want to create the most disturbing villain I can come up with (that doesn't involve pedophilia, crossdressing, or rape). I'm thinking of a cross between [[Characters/Durarara Izaya Orihara]], the Joker, and [[Se7en Johnn Doe]]. His alias is N.

N starts his terrorism by blowing up a hospital. The investigation starts and the very next day after its start, he sends a recorder with recording that says all that the investigators need to do is figure out what is his motive.

The said recorder happened to be in one of the investigator's decapitated head.

Later one of the investigators was invited to his house for some tea. After few talks, following conversation happen.

• the maid brings out the tea*

Do you find him to be a High Octane Nightmare Fuel or just something stupid? He was a product of one of my daily musing.

I don't think it's that creepy. Sorry. It kind of Crosses the Line Twice, but with creepiness, so it goes into High Octane Nightmare Fuel and then veers straight back out again. Tone it down a little.

Hmm, yeah. Bit feels like that South Park episode. Lulz

I find it disturbing that you think crossdressing is disturbing...

At least, more so than cannibalism.

edited 19th Feb '11 6:07:09 AM by MrAHR

Kind of came of a little narmy. Try toning it down a bit.

Indeed. Narm has always been a big pitfalls in my works. Oh well.

Well, to me, crossdressing is a point-off in my villain's book. Hence my disappointment when the Joker and Johan Liebert crossdressed, the former for no apparent reason.

About cannibalism, it is an Author Appeal. I currently have five story drafts and all of them (except one that is pretty much rated G) include them. I mean, hell in The Flow, The Lancer is a bit of a cannibal, if you count biting someone's head off and chewing on a bits of spine cannibalistic, that is.

edited 19th Feb '11 6:19:45 AM by dRoy

If I may suggest something? Why not let it build for a while? Don't reveal anything for a few minutes, and then spring the fact they are drinking a man's remains.

N: "You can find your own way, can't you Detective"

Leonard: putting the tea on a table and putting on his coat "Yeah. By the way that's a rather odd taste, what is it?"

N: "Nathan Grey"

While he drives, the name continously gnaws at the back of Leonard's mind. "Nathan Grey...I've heard it but where?." Leonard slows down at a red light, and takes a look round him trying to keep his eyes busy. His gaze falls onto a case file that opened when the car stopped. One passage stands out.

Nathan Grey. Missing. Presumed dead.

Leonard rushes out of his car and vomits in the crowded traffic

I have no idea if any of that is even close to what your thinking, but I thought it was a good example of what I was talking bout. Hope that helps.

edited 19th Feb '11 6:31:55 AM by AtomJames

Oh, my, God, that's infinitely more awesome than my initial draft! Yes, that helps. That helps a lot. Dude, are you actually familiar with this kind of genre or do I just suck? Also, to be honest, I'm rather new to this kind of genre, my first and only experience being Se7en and The Silence Of The Lambs. Can you recommend any other detective works that feature psychotic villains?

edited 19th Feb '11 6:33:29 AM by dRoy

Of course you don't suck. Just work on the pacing a bit. And, uh...yeah. I've had experience. As disturbing as it sounds, you might want to look at real sickos, like Ed Gien, Son of Sam etc. Other stuff you coud look at? Lets see. Hmmm, well theres the other Hannibal Lector films like Red Dragon. Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing, the original Texas Chainsaw Masacre and Silent Hill 2.

Watch alot of David Lynch films too. The more you learn about the "Fear of the Uncanny" the better.

edited 19th Feb '11 6:44:42 AM by AtomJames

Is the name Nathan Grey a play on Earl Grey?

And what is this person's demenor like? Is he polite?

Yes and yes. He's very Affably Evil. Perhaps even Bishōnen, in design. I'm guessing that if I manage to write him well enough, he might even be a Draco in Leather Pants. Something of a Depraved Bisexual with No Sense of Personal Space though.

edited 19th Feb '11 6:48:14 AM by dRoy

Wow. That was rude. Thumped.

By the way, why the alias N? That reminds me of Death Note.

I wouldn't have said the scene was narmy, but it seems more darkly humorous to me than actually unsettling.

Not very effective in my opinion, mostly because the humor and horror were poorly mixed. Not enough horror to be frightening, too many stabs at a jovial tone for the villain so they all fell flat.

Yeah. Sorry, but Atom James's version is a big improvement.

Also, besides "we have to keep him alive for the plot's sake," I don't see any reason why Leonard doesn't call in reinforcements/a SWAT team or just drown him in bullets on the spot.

That's certainly what I would have done - especially if you go with the version where N reveals that Nathan Grey Tea is people to his face.

Edit: Also, you'll have to explain why a terrorist and serial killer who's wanted by the local and state police, the FBI, and Homeland Security would have a permanent address at all, let alone a house with maid service. That sounds like a recipe for having snipers, helicopters, and every cop in the state on your ass in a minute.

edited 19th Feb '11 12:26:53 PM by Wheezy

Maybe he's got diplomatic immunity!

Yeah I dunno, maybe I'm just jaded but cannibalism by itself doesn't cut it for me. It's also a common motif in my ideas, but usually not played for horror.

Gore/violence doesn't really bother me, either. It sounds like you're trying to make your villain creepy through shock value, which isn't really effective anymore. It might have worked 20-30 years ago, but in the present, ultraviolence is kinda the norm. You're not going to shock anybody.

Personally, I think psychological villains don't lose their edge so quickly (might be harder to pull off, though). Room 101 isn't creepy because it's filled with rats that want to eat your face, it's the context—brainwashing, Mind Rape, helplessness, etc. It's not the act itself that makes a situation terrifying, it's the psychological effect on the victim. 'Ts why people make a big deal about bullies even if their "villainy" isn't Joker-level violence.

I also think Adult Fear doesn't really get old. People might not get fazed by the idea of gross stuff happening to characters, 'cos chances are they can't empathize. They haven't been in that situation. But something like a family member being put in danger, most people have probably thought of seriously.

Other stuff you coud look at? Lets see. Hmmm, well theres the other Hannibal Lector films like Red Dragon. Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing, the original Texas Chainsaw Masacre and Silent Hill 2.

Watch alot of David Lynch films too. The more you learn about the "Fear of the Uncanny" the better.

YMMV, but I think Anton Chigurh also works. You definitely get the feeling that there's something off about this guy, even if he's not ultraviolent.

edited 19th Feb '11 12:42:57 PM by melloncollie

Maybe N has a twin brother (or triplits).

I see. I'm actually more thinking of a script form and I'm not really planning to actually show the audience anything. Also about Adult Fear, Mind Rape, yeah I don't really know how to work on those very well *sweatdrops*. Btw, how do you use cannibalism for humor?

Thank you for reminding me what I already acknowledged. Now here's the part where things become a bit Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane. Leonard actually considers calling the police but there is no reception. The next day when he visits there, with a legion of SWAT force, the place is gone. Yeah.

Oh, and Mister Always, who was being rude? Me?

edited 19th Feb '11 5:01:29 PM by dRoy

Anything can be used as humor if it's over the top. Take Haruhi Suzumiya dressing Mikuru Asahina in a bunny suit in a very suggestive way. Mirkuru's squealing is so Moe, it's funny. There is a reason Refuge in Audacity and Crosses the Line Twice exists.

Meh, sexual harrassment is pretty easy to make it sound funny. Also "anything" is a bit over-generalization.

Going with an earlier suggestion, what you might want to do is have it sink in for a bit—have the killer mention "Nathan Grey" and then, maybe about two or three pages later, have the detectives notice a missing poster with that name.

I think it would work, because "Nathan Grey" sounds like it actually could be a type of tea (there is an Earl Grey, after all), so the revelation is more shocking.

I don't find the villain particularly disturbing though.

Maybe you should watch/read Monster? The antagonist of that anime/manga seems to fall in the same archetype than yours.

On a related note to this thread, I think the reason me and D Roy have so much trouble eliciting a reaction is because a lot of people on here are a bit jaded.

And by the way, dRoy, did you have an idea explosion, because you have a lot of Writer's Block threads currently.