Good ol' Trope Decay: Darker And Edgier

On the subject of this trope, does it apply to new works that start from scratch, but would be considered grittier entries in the genre as a whole, or does it just apply to the changes a work in particular suffers along its life, becoming grittier and, in theory, more cynical as time goes by? If it's the latter, then there are some examples in the page that are not adequate.

edited 16th Feb '11 7:55:53 AM by Sachiko

No, the way it's written is a

"A Tone Shift that seeks to make a work of fiction "more adult". Usually this is practically interpreted as "add more sex, profanity, violence, and controversial content". "

And here's what Tone Shift says: "Over time, works can change in tone. ... This can be a deliberate shift in tone that was planned all along, it can be done deliberately because of a perceived advantage to the new tone (almost always financial), or it may be an unplanned and almost accidental shift over time. ... This is especially true in episodic media, such as Live-Action TV, Comic Books, and Web Comics, where their long-running status and, in the first two cases, changes in writing teams can cause marked changes in tone over time. This also frequently appears when remaking or re-imagining older media for a modern audience."

So it's a shift within a work or its adaptations.

Lighter and Softer and Hotter and Sexier trope descriptions reffers to sequels/reboots/remakes/spin-off and alikes. Maybye we should get all those tropes and purge all examples that aren't either?

Quite frankly, many examples right now, especially in comcis section, are complaining about things you don't like (seriously, person who wrote X-Force example is waaay to dedicated to make sure everybody will see this comics as complete shit for his or her own good), some examples are more fitting into Deconstruction, especially when they're Darker and Edgier to entire genre (Madoka).

When something gets darker and more serious over the time, it's Cerebus Syndrome. When it gets darker and more serious take on entire genre, it's Deconstruction. When it's a darker and more serious sequel, remake, reboot, Retool, Spin-Off, prequel or work from Expanded Universe, this should be Darker and Edgier.

Not what Deconstruction means.

Deconstruction shows us what would happen if we would take the genre or trope and apply it to real world's rules. Most of times it ends pretty badly, so most deconstructions ends up being darker and more serious take on the genre. Sure, you can create deconstruction that isn't darker and edgier, but it's probably gonna turn into deconstructive parody, I rarerly seen deconstruction that isn't darker and isn't also a parody. As the matter of fact, I seen only one, namely Tiger And Bunny is this for Super Hero genre. And even it can have very serious moments. Anyway, I let myself made a little leap in that prevoius post, sorry I wasn't more clear

My point is that Deconstruction is not about making a genre darker. This may be a side effect but it's not the primary point, unlike the other tropes you listed there. The misuse of deconstruction to mean Darker and Edgier on this wiki is ridiculous, especially on the Playing With Trope pages, and it's become a personal Berserk Button of mine (especially now that it seems tropers are using "deconstructed" as the new 'subverted').

At any rate, the point is that "a darker and more serious take on an entire genre" is not Deconstruction, though I'm not sure if any trope currently covers that. You're right in that Darker and Edgier refers to spin-offs, reboots, etc. and not the same work.

That's what I meant in my previous post, that Deconstruction is mostly ending as darker take on entire genre by consequence of what it's really doing. I know very well what deconstruction means, I even like it. In my earlier post I just made some leap that caused the confusion, I'm sorry it pissed you off.

But Deconstruction has nothing to do with making something darker. In fact, if you deconstruct the right thing it can make it brighter.

Agree with Shima, don't mix up your cause and effect.

Deconstructions are often Darker and Edgier, or at least more cynical than playing the trope straight, but this does not mean that every Darker and Edgier is a Deconstruction taking place.

edited 29th Jun '11 10:20:06 AM by Stratadrake

So are we still going with Shima's post 39 definitions?

I stand by those definitions.

I am not disagreeing with you. Just checking.

So if Cerebus Syndrome describes a comedy becoming serious and Darker and Edgier is about a work becoming "darker" but not necessarily more serious, what describes a non-comedy becoming more serious? Growing the Beard?

edited 29th Jun '11 10:51:03 PM by revolution11

No, Growing the Beard is when a show, comedic or serious, begins to grow out of its Early-Installment Weirdness and take a turn for the better - the inverse of Jumping the Shark. It doesn't have anything to do with "becoming more serious". A show that began by trying to do drama poorly and became much better after getting more comedic would be a case of Growing the Beard, for instance.

@ 62, I want to say it's Drama Tab or something.

Ah, it's Drama Bomb.

edited 30th Jun '11 6:08:28 AM by Deboss

But that seems to imply that drama is injected suddenly into a work. The trope description mentions that often used Drama Bombs are not successful and that the effects are quick to appear once used.

What is it if drama/serious plot is gradually introduced?

edited 30th Jun '11 9:57:48 AM by revolution11

Then it's a Tone Shift.

EDIT: Ignore, misread the post.

edited 30th Jun '11 10:10:27 AM by CaissasDeathAngel

"But Deconstruction has nothing to do with making something darker." - shimaspawn

What if it's of the Ascended Fridge Horror variety?

Cerebus Syndrome can struck non-comedic works too, I seen it used that way (The Witcher page for example mentions under Cerebus Syndrome that first books in the series were grimmified fairy tales and latest rivals Warhammer 40k.) I suggest we rewrite Cerebus Syndrome to make it cover also non-comedic examples, it's, in my opinion, better idea than creating new trope. Darker and Edgier should apply only to things like remake reboot and things like that, just like Hotter and Sexier, Lighter and Softer and Bloodier and Gorier do.

So:

• Cerebus Syndrome - when continuous work, like ongoing webcomics, comics series or book series grews darker and more serious. For example, webcomics Order Of The Stick starts as gag series about D&D rules and slowely turns to world-saving, political intrigues, questionable choices, giagiantic amounts of character development an much serious tone.
• Darker and Edgier - Remakes and things like that. For example, Batman movies - Nolan's are this to Shumacher's, Burton's are this to West's.

Even that can be used for comedy as is demonstrated by the page image. It still doesn't mean it's automatically going to be darker.

Cerebus Syndrome isn't about works getting darker. Darker is not at all a requirement. It's just about them getting serious and dramatic. They can still be lighthearted and comedic. Drama doesn't mean something is dark and edgy. Sometimes it just means that ongoing plot has been introduced.

edited 30th Jun '11 11:29:17 AM by shimaspawn

"Cerebus Syndrome can struck non-comedic works too, I seen it used that way"

No. Just... No

We are not redefining a pre-existing term because one or two people are confused by it and using it incorrectly. As it has been defined since long before we started using the term, it is specifically about comedy. If it ain't a comedy, it can't suffer Cerebus Syndrome.

edited 30th Jun '11 11:30:02 AM by CaissasDeathAngel

There's a difference between something getting more dramatic and something getting more dark and/or edgy.

On a sidenote, last I checked Darker and Edgier was considered subjective (and I agree that it should be) which raises the question as to whether Cerebus Syndrome should be as well.

Bump. Do we have any remaining issues to be resolved?

No replies since the last query about remaining issues. Can this one be locked?