Crisis on Infinite Earths
Superboy-Prime can only exist BECAUSE of the Crisis
So Earth-Prime is supposed to be "our" Earth. Clearly our universe doesn't have a real Superman so what's the deal with Superboy-Prime? Well my theory is that because of the Anti-Monitor crashing around the Multiverse and the various superheroes also skipping around, the barriers between universes and their very structure began to collapse. This allowed impossible things (like a Krypton) to exist in the Prime Universe.
The Earth presented at the end of Crisis On Infinite Earths is not the Post-Crisis DCU.
In the first Crisis, the Earth-1 Superman is clearly the pre-Crisis Superman, and at the end it's stated he'll continue to be the main Superman. However, the Post-Crisis
DCU has its own Superman, introduced in Man of Steel
and well-known for being nowhere as powerful. In fact, a lot changed after the Crisis, so much so that it's obvious the Earth presented at the end isn't the post-Crisis DCU at all
was told from the perspective of that Earth, and after the Crisis was resolved that Earth... Hypertime
'd away or something. Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow
takes place in this continuity.
- Not to mention that the power-suit wearing Luthor Superman briefly grills doesn't match up with the corporate shark Luthor Byrne would introduce months later. The recent re-addition of various pieces of pre-Crisis continuity (Superman's involvement in the Legion, the Toyman) muddle the matter, though.
- Elements of the Pre-Crisis Multiverse were firm enough in their existence that, when it was brought back in Infinite Crisis briefly, the entire thing ballooned outwards again, only to come crashing back into 52 Universes. Therefore, New Earth is filled with the echoes of the Pre-Crisis Multiverse, possibly explaining such odd returns as Zur En Ahhr.
- Believe it or not, at least some of this was explained in-continuity: All-Star Squadron and The Legend of Wonder Woman, the latter a four-issue miniseries meant to wrap up the E-1 Wonder Woman's story since only the E-2 version really featured in the Crisis, both depicted characters — Mekanique and Aphrodite — holding back the full effects of the timeline revision for their own purposes. So Crisis #10-12 and a few other comics probably fit into the period before those two characters "let go" and the wholesale revision wave hits. (This may also explain why, despite COIE #10-12 indicating that all the heroes at the Dawn of Time would recall the multiverse, no one does when the reboots of Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. start hitting.)
- Also, a statue of Supergirl (in honor of her sacrifice during the Crisis) was seen in the Legion of Super-Heroes comics.
- Justice takes place in this Earth. The Marvel Family apparently have always lived on this Earth, and debuted during the early years of the superheroes. As shown in History of the DC Universe #2.
- Wait, the Earth of the post-Crisis DCU, up until Infinite Crisis, is secretly Earth-S?
- No, I meant that the pre-Crisis Marvel Family characters were still canon before they were reintroduced in the Shazam! The New Beginning mini-series and The Power of Shazam graphic novel.
- The OP is right, though he/she seems to forget that Superman's introduction in Man of Steel took place before Co IE in the timeline, though yes, he was less powerful and there was no Supergirl.
- The last time we see Superman, he and Power Girl are walking toward the Fortress of Solitude, and their posture suggests that they're "close" (i.e. inter-dimensional cousins)
- The last time we see Lex Luthor—granted, there was still an issue or two to go—we see Lex Luthor in prison being questioned by Batman & Robin, something that would be hard to believe in the post-Crisis universe.
- Speaking of Batman & Robin, the last time we see them, Mary Marvel is with them, and the caption suggests they're all thinking about people who died (in B&R's case, this must include the Earth-2 Robin and Huntress).
Alexander Luthor Jr.'s superpowers didn't come from the Anti-Matter Wave.
There's no logical reason the Anti-Matter wave would affect him like that. Pariah wasn't affected, nor was anyone else present for the death of a universe. The true moment of mutation was when he broke out of his universe, attempting to reach Earth-1, thus exposing him to The Bleed
, which is known to have bizarre effects on those exposed to it.
- Either way, it's possible he had a latent metagene activated during the multiversal crossing.
Neither the Crisis nor the so-called Anti-Matter Waves actually destroyed any universes, they just sealed them away from inter-universal travel and observation.
The original multiverse is still there, just inaccessible from the "mainstream" New Earth.
- Some of these were made accessible again after Infinite Crisis, at the end of 52; what the hyperevolved Mr. Mind was eating away at wasn't time, but interdimensional space.
- No, these were other alternate versions of the originals. Mr. Mind didn't "eat parts" of these universes, just cycled through several alternates including some that looked "partially eaten". The ones we ended up with were the last ones Mind jumped into before skipping to another section of the continuum entirely, and these wound up gettng slotted into the 52 "empty" spots connected directly to The DCU; but all the other worlds are still out there isolated from the current DCU, including all the Elseworlds.
- The Superman from the original Earth-2 did said "they're still out there" before he died.
- This would explain Grant Morrison's Animal Man series, despite the fact that Earth-Prime was supposedly destroyed/never existed due to the Crisis.
- This supports my theory of Earth-Prime being the center of all things DC/Marvel/Whatever. Because the word Prime implies significance, and if Earth-P is the real world, that means that we're the center of creation from which the Multiverse sprouted. The 52 can't exist without us.
- Earth-Prime is the baseline, reference universe. All other universes are, in part, defined by how they are different from that universe. That is why Like Reality Unless Noted is in effect.
The entire span of events between Crisis on Infinite Earths
and the return of the Multiverse in Infinite Crisis
took place over an extraordinarily short period of time in the Marvel Universe
During the final issues of X-Man
, the writer began to refer to the Marvel Universe as "611" because numerous other universes, including ones "higher up" had been destroyed by a godlike being. Yet the 616 designation was swiftly returned. Possibly, the total reboot of various heroes and organizations after the initial Crisis
and the events of Zero Hour
helped disrupt and stunt the sliding timescale of the DCU. Once the Multiverse returned
in Infinite Crisis
, however, the DCU made up for lost time: Luthor temporarily combines Earths 154 and 462 and catches a distorted glimpse of the Civil War
- This proves that the DC and Marvel multiverses are actually one-and-the-same, and that it's only the barriers in the WMG above that shield the worlds connected to The DCU from the Marvel multiverse proper.
- This may be keep the Bleed contained to the 52, or the Anti-Monitor. Or Batman.
- Marvel & DCU were merged once in the mid 1990s (Amalgam Universe) back when DCU had only one universe and the two were only kept apart by the being Access. 616 was thus Always an available multiverse.
- The Zombie Sentry from Marvel Zombies actually was Superman (traveling into the afterlife is a trick he pulls off in DC One Million), from one of the 52. He broke through the barriers of reality and attacked Ash Williams in heaven, and then you know where it goes from there.
- Barry Allen's brief appearance in Quasar was due to his final race in the original Crisis sending him through the Multiverse. Eventually, he found his way back to the Infinite Earths to finish his job.
There was never an infinite number of universes.
Since the Anti-Monitor was able to reduce the number of universes to a finite number, there could not have truly been an infinite number of universes; only a very, very, large number of them perceived as infinite (or the term 'infinite' was being used loosely to describe the number of universes within the multiverse).
- Alternatively, the Anti-Monitor could only perceive or affect a finite number, but refused to accept this.
- Mathematically, there's nothing that says you can't destroy an infinite number. If infinite universes can be created, they can be destroyed. You just need an infinite destructive force. And if you can do that, you can also make a finite out of an infinite— cut a middle section out of an infinite line and destroy the rest, and boom, instant finite line.
- Infinity minus infinity is undefined - the operation doesn't work ( http://www.philforhumanity.com/Infinity_Minus_Infinity.html ). Infinite isn't properly speaking a number in the same sense that 42 is a number - you can't subtract from it.
- Except we're not using regular subtraction anyway, and the above troper just defined how we go about getting a finite number from an infinite number, so that's all alright then.
- If you start from a single point and draw a line to infinity, it is an infinite distance. Therefore, to cut an infinite line in half and destroy the rest still leaves you with an infinite line.
- I'm going to prove you all wrong and tell you straight up: Canonically, there were only 3000 universes. Infinite just sounded like a better title.
Infinite worlds were not destroyed...
...just thousands upon thousands, because as noted above, it's impossible to destroy all of an infinite number. This is supported in Planetary
, where Elijah Snow makes a reference to the Crisis as a "partial multiversal collapse" or something to that effect. The destroyed Earths were just an exceptionally large "family" of universes surrounding the multiversal cornerstone of Oa/Qward on Earth-1 and the Anti-Matter Universe, and other Earths (such as Wildstorm) were just too distant for the Anti-Monitor to detect. Alexander Luthor did not in fact recreate 51 other Earths, but only 50 — the reconstitution of the multiple Earths facilitated a connection to the Wildstorm Universe, which unbeknownst to either world's denizens now acts as a bridge between the 52 and the wider multiverse.
Superboy-Prime is an incarnation of Superman vs. Somebody fight threads.
Let's face it, anyone who proposed a match like that has always decreed that the contestants fight for basically no reason, that Superman fight to the best of his ability instead of using proportional response, and really wished people would stop just using Kryptonite. And voila: Here we have an incarnation of Superman who'll fight anyone at all for no reason, make every blow a killing one if he can, and is immune to Kryptonite.
- Apparently, Superman can't beat Superman and Superman.
- Actually when put into context, it makes more sense: (Silver Age) Super(boy-Prime) can beat both (Golden Age) Superman and (Modern Age) Superman. While the G.A. Supes is really strong (post-Power Creep, Power Seep) and M.A. Supes is... well, Modern Age Supes strong, Prime maintains Silver Age power levels where he can literally move planets with his bare hands, has almost no weaknesses and a very black-and-white morality view. The only reason he was beaten in Infinite Crisis was that the two Supermen destroyed his armor and exposed him to red sun radiation.
was a result of Kingdom Hearts
' collapse returning the Darkness to surround the infinite universes, or Worlds.
Aside from the obvious multiple worlds theme, just tell
is not a superpowerful example of these
. They even fire energy bolts. This offers a link between Disney, Final Fantasy
, and The DCU
(and the Marvel Universe
, if the above guesses are correct).
The Anti-Monitor is directly responsible for all continuity errors after CoIE.
Basically, he became the anthropormorphic personification of the Continuity Snarl
. The one we saw in Green Lantern
- Or the Anti-Monitor in Sinestro Corps War was the original, and still serves as the personification of the Continuity Snarl. He worked in conjunction with Superboy-Prime's punching of the Source Wall to cause all the current continuity errors since just before Infinite Crisis to the moment became the Black Lantern Power Battery.
Luthor Jr. is powered by continuity errors.
That's really why he kept getting Superboy Prime to punch the walls. The
worse the writers' research
more reality is altered, the more powerful he becomes. Alternately, Superboy/man Prime is powered by them himself, and he will keep getting more powerful as errors increase.
Warning this theory is Continuity Porn
The DCU, the Marvel Universe
, Disney Animated Canon
's films and the various Final Fantasy
worlds were all originally part of the same set of infinite earths that made up the multiverse before it was destroyed by the Anti-Moniter. We know this since we have seen that Marvel and DC universes are able to crossover occasionally, the minor Mythology Gags
in the Pixar movies, Disney owning Marvel and Princess And The Frog
showing a combined cosmology as that of the The Lion King
indicating a form of shared verses.
The Antimoniter claimed to have destroyed the multiverse but since it was made up from an infinite number of Earths that would be functionally impossible to destroy a infinite number of anything. What really occured was that he destroyed trillions of worlds but simply seperated and sealed most worlds off from each other. In this process some beings were removed from their original worlds and placed into new ones often with no memory of their true home, this happened to the Justice Society of America
who were stranded on New Earth away from their original Earth-1 and to most of the Final Fantasy characters as their worlds were among those lost in the Crisis.
The Unversed came into being from the souls of those who lost their worlds and lives in the Crisis. The destroyed Antimoniter left behind a lingering darkness across the multiverse that when used in Xenoheart's experiments formed the heartless and left behind nobodies.
Due to his concern of the possibility of the Heartless reforming the Antimoniter and the potential dangers of the Nobodies and Unversed the moniter created the Access force as seen in Marvel Vs DC
and the Amalgalm universe. This did not go as planned as he was diverted from his purpose of watching over the Heartless and Nobodies by the interfereance of Dr. Strangefate from the Amalgalm Universe. So when that minor crisis was adverted he stripped Access of his power and reforged the power into the Keyblades and Gummivessels which he gifted upon the Land of Departure, a world of his own creation where he deposited those with worthy hearts who had lost worlds but survived the Crisis. This is where the series begins.
The true cause of the Crisis on Infinite Earths?
roundhouse-kicked Mr T
at the exact moment that Mr T
punched Chuck Norris
. The impact caused a chain reaction that awoke the Anti-Monitor and set the Crisis in motion.
- Unlikely. Even if that only happened in the DC universe, the resulting impact would have undoubtedly shattered the real world as well.
Let's see...he doesn't just try to destroy reality,
but is absorbing its remains.
He's an Eldritch Abomination
who's come back to life, only needing a shell to contain his essence. He's even described as a "universe-eater." This is why the Anti-Monitor does what he does-more or less, he just wants to consume The Multiverse
, and feel full afterwards. Being a Multiversal Conqueror
is just a bonus for the guy. This way of eating may be something that all Monitors share, considering that they tried to eat Earths 0-51 as well.
- pretty sure the second part's canon.
Superboy-Prime, doesn't actually have ANY powers.
Earth Prime is supposed to be the real world. So obviously no one on Earth Prime has powers. But when their in Another Universe AKA the Fictional World, thats when theirs powers manifest. These fictional places in DC, or marvel, or any kind of comic book, were born out of the Comic creators minds and take shape within their books, creating a pocket dimension, that has no effect here. Only when they bring up Earth Prime in the comics is when we actually get involved. Like Superboy-Prime probably wasn't born on Krypton, which would explain why there's no kryptonite on Earth, No Darkseid in space or any trace of Zod or other Kryptonians. He may have just been abandoned by his real parents, who just happened to be exactly like Jor-El and Lara and were aptly named Jordan and Laura. Also the comet that Superboy claims gave him his powers was nothing more than coincidence, it was the fact that the fictional Superman had came into his world that gave him powers. Which would also explain why, only when Alex gave him back his armor in Blackest Night
, is when his abilities came back. Because the writers had unknowingly brought fictional elements into the real world, thus giving Prime his powers back.
But what i'm alluding to is that maybe on Earth-Prime (here) there are others like Clark, like a guy named Barry Allen
, a track star, the self proclaimed "fastest man alive" who claims to zoom past like red and yellow lightning, then there's Karen Kent
, who's Clark's cousin and a cheerleader who admires Supergirl/Powergirl. Next Bruce Wayne
, an angsty orphan with quite the will left by his parents. Harold Jordan
, a high school senior whose most precious possession is his Emerald class ring and wants to sign up for the air force. Then Diana Prince
, a bombshell feminist that was homeschooled in an all female community. Finally, you have Victor Stone
A man with a bunch of prosthetics, but they're so high end, everyone calls him Cyborg.
- This may be confirmed in said fight with the Black Lanterns, Prime puts on a black ring. It says "Clark Kent of Earth-Prime: DIE!" As seen when it latched on to Superman, it gives the actual birth name of the individual-if Superboy Prime is really an alternate Superman, it would say "Kal-El of Earth-Prime" or "Kal-El of Krypton-Prime."
- This would go to explain his overpoweredness
- Superboy-Prime's powers are on the level of the Silver Age Superboy. Prime is most familiar to this Superboy, and since he thinks he is Superboy/Superman he copies his abilities.
- Not all of them though, like the stupid ones that the writers came up on the spot. Prime only ever acknowledged the ones that made sense.
- The red sun only has an effect because Prime thinks he's a Kryptonian, and all Kryptonians besides the Golden Age Superman are weakened by it.
- No Kryptonite weakness? There is no Krypton, and even if there was Superboy-Prime is human, so something that only affects Kryptonians won't bother him. Element Lad didn't whip up Kryptonite to hurt him, but an actual radioactive material that exists in our world(plutonium, maybe). It just happened to look like kryptonite.
- Being unaffected by magic? Earth-Prime's laws of physics make magic impossible, thus Prime can No Sell magical attacks.
Following the above, our universe has counterparts to the characters of the DC Universe.
And they all have similarities to the heroes and villains we love. Given there are about 7 billion people, they're bound to exist somewhere on our world. Including the above, we have Arthur Curry
(a member of the school swimming program) and his girlfriend Mary. Richard Grayson is Bruce's younger, adoptive brother. The Teen Titans are Victor Stone's
former classmates at college. Adam Strange
is actually an astronaut who died during his mission(his The DCU
counterpart survived because the Rannians exist.) John Jones
exists, but is a standard detective, albeit one who's into the psychic craze.
There are villain counterparts. Lex Luthor
is a rival Jerkass nerd who bullied Superboy-Prime, Thadeus Sinestro is a police lieutenant or chief that's hard on Hal and Brainiac is an misanthropic librarian. Black Manta is Arthur's rival in the program and Mary's former Bastard Boyfriend
, of whom she is with child. Slade Wilson is
secretly an assassin, not as skilled and well equipped as in the comics though, with his public identity looking after his darling Rose. The Joker
is a clown that scared the hell out of Bruce when he was a kid.
As for the various Lantern Corps: The Sinestro Corps are Sinestro's cop pals whom are very extreme in their duties, the Green Lantern Corps the US Airforce and other hopefuls that want to enlist too, the Blue Lanterns are a church that Hal's apprehensive to go to, the Indigo Tribe are a group/cult of junkies that rely on drugs to be compassionate, the Star Sapphires are a gang of "enlightened" hookers, the Red Lanterns are a group of vigilantes and are thus always clashing with Sinestro's guys, and Larfleeze is one of those Corrupt Corporate Executives
devastating the country with his 'corps' being his many, many
, "business partners" that he stepped on to get on top,
And the Black Lanterns are...actually, they're the same as the ones in The DCU
. When Zombie Alex Jr
brought Prime's victims to our universe, he sent a bunch of black rings so that, if Nekron is defeated, the Black Lanterns can make a comeback here.
As for why it hasn't happened, the rings are still weak from being cut off from fiction-land. Until you get a hold of a "toy ring." It's keeping an eye on you
, and wait until you die/it finds a source of significant power. And then...
There is an Anti-Matter Multiverse
The 52 has been called the "Positive Matter Multiverse". So what if the Anti-Monitor
is actually trying to stop the Monitor
from doing a Reverse-Crisis?
- Since Darkseid used that same logic to realize the existence of the Anti-Life Equation, this seems likely
The Anti-Monitor and Monitor embody antimatter and matter on a truly multiversal scale. The reason they exist at all is because, when looking at the dawn of time, Krona
inadvertently recreated some of the initial conditions at its earliest moments(particles and antiparticles). He was lucky he only got the Crisis.
The Anti-Monitor and Monitor would've been perfectly fine ruling their respective universes, but they ended up discovering each other's existence. It was then on to prove who's type of matter would reign supreme
: positive or negative. Neither side was good
: the battle between the two was us vs them on a cosmic scale. Particles and antiparticles must destroy each other when they collide, with the exception of Alex Luthor Jr. The Anti-Monitor stayed dead after the Crisis because there was only a single positive and negative universe left, and a huge margin of error to screw up and destroy his universe. Destroyer he may be
, but not of the team he's fighting for. When the new 52 universe showed up
, the Anti-Monitor was happy to see that the pestering Insignificant Blue Planet
had done goofed and made themselves vital to the 52 multiverse
, meaning that it would be easy picking. Kidnapping the Entity
was an attempt to rebuild the Antimatter Multiverse.
Think about it-the Crisis was designed to straighten out the endless continuity of DC Comics. The Anti-Monitor was sick of a confusing reality, so he decided to simplify it-make sure there was only one universe, and that the continuity didn't get snarled(the simplest way to simplify reality would be to limit how complex it could get.
The reason why the Anti-Monitor came back to life in the Sinestro Corps War was because he worried the recent 52 universes would muddle up continuity even more. He would later serve as a power battery to Nekron
not just because he's a Physical God
, but because he had information about the continuity. Essentially, the Anti-Monitor is a Cosmic Entity
that exists to simplify the timeline.
- If that's the case, the Anti-Monitor must be incredibly shitty at its job. Hawkman, Legion of Superheroes, Donna Troy, and countless others, it just made things far worse.
The shadow demons that attack the heroes at the end of the first issue are servants of the Monitor not the Anti-Monitor.
Unlike the shadow demons that are seen in the rest of the series, those ones were a lot stronger, the heroes could't harm them in any way even when three of them (Firestorm, Killer frost and Green Lantern) teamed-up against only one. In later issues they are destroyed fairly easy by the same powers that are useless here. Conversely, later shadow demons, despite being easily destroyed are a lot more dangerous because their touch burns their victims. The ones seen in the first issue wrestle with the heroes without causing them any permanent injuries. Finally they are easily send into hiding by the Monitor simply turning the lights on. Another thing to consider is that it seems unlikely that the Anti-Monitor could circumvent so easily the defenses of the Monitor sending his minions to his own house. One wonders how the Monitor and Lyla could survive for so long if this was the case.
I believe the Monitor created a small number of his own version of shadow demons so he could test the strengths and weaknesses of the assembled heroes, without risking the danger of any of them suffering injuries that could made them useless for his plans.
Relic's universe was in the Pre-Crisis Multiverse, and he somehow survived the Crisis
In the upcoming Green Lantern story arc Lights Out
, the main antagonist, Relic, is from a universe prior to the Prime Earth universe. Kinda like Galactus - except it's hard to fit this whole 'another universe before the current DCnU
' into DC's complicated continuity. So we must conclude that Relic's universe was in the original DC Multiverse, and Relic, through reasons unknown, managed to survive the wrath of the Anti-Monitor
- Perhaps Relic is even earlier than that: he's from the original timeline aka what would've happened had Krona not messed with history. Without that there was no reason to create the Green Lantern Corps, and thus the emotional spectrum could've gone much differently. Perhaps different enough to create a light-based society, leading to Relic.