Headscratchers: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
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Is it Sam's War?
- In the latest trailer for ROTF, why is Sam saying "this isn't my war." Dude, you have an alien robot bodyguard that you keep in your garage. If you weren't part of the war when you killed Megatron, you became part of it when you made out with your girlfriend on top of Bumblebee with the Autobots watching.
- If Fallen really is involved as well as Megatron, he may be referring not to the Autobot-Decepticon civil war, but to the Primus-Unicron holy war. He's probably saying that he's willing to get involved with decepti-creeps, but he draws the line when it comes to demonic minions of an evil god.
- The Fallen's movie origins utterly contradict his Dreamwave stuff. I think we can safely throw that "Multivertial Singularity" crap out the window.
- No, its still valid. Somehow. Good luck making heads or tails of the Word Of God handwave, but it presumably covers the issue.
- Sam was just caught up in a situation beyond his control, humans did not have a stake in the war until Earth became an alien battleground. Sam probably hoped that with the Allspark destroyed the Decepticons wouldn't bother with Earth anymore. It could also be a reaction to the knowledge his head is in Decepticon crosshairs, wouldn't you want the violent robots to just leave you alone?
- Because it isn't his war. He didn't choose to get involved in this conflict, it was dropped on him and he was dragged into it, along with the rest of humanity, when the Autobots and Decepticons brought the war to Earth.
- Just like the posters for the movie said: "Their war, our world."
Michael Bay is History's Greatest Monster!
- OK, me is a diehard Transformers fan and maybe takes this too seriously. But I get annoyed when Bay makes a stylistic change and then declares it more realistic or logical when really it's just a narrative choice that is no better or worse than the previous one. So let's take the whole idea of the Transformers turning into spaceships instead of using spaceships. The only reason this makes sense is because this continuity's Transformers are capable of switching alternate modes on the fly without the use of a MacGuffin, arbitrary power up, stasis pod, or rebuilding sequence. However, this itself creates all sorts of Fridge Logic: why don't the Autobots pick better alternate modes for specific situations? This may have been Ret Conned as being a specific ability of Frenzy's, but it's still very annoying how it's considered more realistic for Transformers to be outright shapeshifters instead of being difficult to rebuild and needing ships for transport - especially since the latter more adheres to Rule of Drama and doesn't create Fridge Logic when the Transformers get injured and cannot just pick a new alternate mode to reconfigure/repair themselves. Not a MAJOR complaint (MST3K Mantra applies in spades to this franchise), but an irksome little tidbit.
- The Ark and The Nemesis exist in Bayformers (You even see the Nemesis in ROTF). The "protoform" modes they use to land on a planet are pretty much just for that purpose, as well as having some short-range space travel ability.
- Who said the Transformers "turned into" spaceships? The visual appearance of the Transformers indicates they had some manner of exterior shell around their bodies protecting them while in transit.
- I know that people think American's have no concept of geography, but Micheal Bay is just making us look ridiculous. I mean, most school children know that the Pyramids of Giza aren't anywhere near the Red Sea! And how the hell did Sam and company get through the multiple check points and border crossings it would take for them to go from Petra (in Jordan) to Giza? They'd be going near the Suez Canal, and those guys don't mess around.
- This is a universe with giant transforming robots. I think some liberties with geography are acceptable.
- The concept being based in sci-fi is not an excuse for basic geography failure. If the premise is that this is happening on Earth, the locations should geographically resemble Earth. Having giant robots in the film doesn't excuse that.
- Honestly, this isn't the first time the Transformers metaseries has gotten an F in geography◊. It simply got the very same F in geography in front of a much bigger, much smarter audience.
- "Smarter"? I'd like someone to ask a hundred random Americans about that little geography tidbit. See how many of them say "I don't know" or answer wrong. Or heck, a hundred random people, worldwide. I'm not sure the numbers would be much improved if you stuck to the Middle East, or even Egypt. A lot of people don't know that fact, a lot of people probably don't even care, and if anyone extrapolates from that one geography mistake by one filmmaker and his writers to judge an entire nation, they're bigots.
- Wrong Red Sea. Obviously it's Yam Suph, the "Sea of Reeds," which has to be somewhere near the pyramids if Hebrew slaves built them, then escaped by parting it.
- Actually I take it back. Assuming Suez counts as the red sea, it's a two-hour drive from Giza. Not that bad.
- At the end of the first movie, why didn't they melt Megatron down or do something more to destroy his body? While to the Autobots he would be dead, one would think the humans would be worried that he could be repaired.
- The government actually wanted to study the remains more after the Autobots left and placed it there for future recovery?
- Besides, 6000 C only merely allowed it to be destroyed, not melted. What kind of explosives you'd like to use to melt it? Nukes?
- Easy - throw him into an active volcano. Alien metal alloys or not, if that doesn't destroy him outright, it would at least make it incredibly hard for the Decepticons to get to him.
- Galvatron spent the time between The Transformers: The Movie and Five Faces of Darkness elbow-deep in lava on the planet Thrull. Cyclonus pulled him out and the only damage was to his mind. If the US government thought dropping Megs into a volcano would be the be-all end-all, they would be sadly mistaken.
- Nice try, but the live-action transformers are demonstrably less resilient than those presented in the animated series / comic books who were for all intents and purposes immune to human weaponry. Dr Jones railgun from the comic-crossover was significant precisely because it could harm or destroy a transformer with one shot as opposed to thousands. The standards of the animated/comic continuity cannot be applied to the live-action films (a truth that works on multiple levels.)
Alice: They call me the great pretender...
- The Alice Pretender was sent to track down Sam, right? And based on what Sam says and her own determined pursuit of Sam, Mikaela and Leo she's clearly far stronger than her disguise template. So why did she keep trying to 'seduce' Sam in order to restrain him? I suppose you could argue it's to make him let down his guard, but if she's so much stronger than him why didn't she just drag him into a restroom, knock him unconscious then take him to Megatron?
- She wasn't sure they needed him until he went crazy in class; before that, she was just preparing for a possibility. Also, she wasn't that strong; yes, she was stronger than she looked, but Sam was still able to break free and chase after Mikaela—until the tongue thing.
- Doesn't work for me; the film Decepticons aren't known for their subtlety, and Alice's "seduction" routine was blatant Fanservice. It'd have been more plausible if she had just stabbed him and then dump the body/drag Sam to Megatron/whatever instead.
- They aren't known for their subtlety? They were on Earth years before the events of the first movie, without anyone learning about them. They were doing the same thing then: Hiding in plain sight as they gathered information, and they moved to strike when they either knew where they had to go, or they knew they couldn't avoid it to get to their objective.
- Speaking of Alice, according to the novel (which has much more detail than the movie), she isn't actually a Pretender per se, just a 'con that scanned an animatron from an Alice and Wonderland theme park. It also mentions that she has a metal plate bearing the "Honda" logo on screwed into her neck. How the hell has everyone she encountered missed that?
- She had long hair, which would have easily hidden it. And there's no indication of how long she's actually been around. If it's been a couple days or so, who would have noticed?
- I thinks Alice should have been left on the cutting room floor, because she raises a whole slew of questions such as why the Decepticons don't impersonate humans more often. They could have set their sights way higher than just seducing Sam. Especially if they're able to fool Autobots as well. Why else would Bumblebee only humiliate her like some sorority tramp trying to tempt Sam into cheating instead of killing her on sight like the Decepticon tramp she was?
- I'm guessing they can't properly scan a disguise from organics in this continuity and need a humanlike robot as said above to have something to adjust into a proper disguise. Also most Deceptions tend to be freaking huge or small ala Frenzy and the Insecticons. Maybe there are more human sized ones running around in disguises but Sam only crossed paths with her.
- It does bring up the question of why Sam immediately trusts the parents he's presented with by the Decepticons, now that he knows they can impersonate humans. The animatronic thing clears that up, but that scene got cut so what's its canon status?
- Its in the novelization, at least. That's gotta count for something.
What Makes Primes So Cool?
- How, exactly, was a Prime the only one capable of killing the Fallen? Are we talking super-regeneration immortality, where you have to kill him with a Prime? Or was Optimus just the only one strong enough to do it? I think the first one is more likely, I just wish they had made more of an effort to explain that.
- I personally see three different ways of interpreting that. Because Destiny Says So, because only a Prime would be strong enough to do it, or it could simply be that the Fallen is intimidated by the Primes considering they defeated him in the first place.
- It could also be spoken from experience. The Fallen, being a multiversal singularity who goes through every alternate universe one at a time and gets new bodies from Unicron when need be, has experianced the events of the movie many, many, many times before, and will no doubt experience them several times more, with slight variations of circumstance each time. Its possible that, when he did the general events outlined in the movie before, the only times his body got totaled were when a Prime destroyed it.
- In TF 07, Optimus calls Megatron his brother. Obviously, Optimus is a Prime and a descendant of the seven/thirteen original Primes. This must mean he is related to the Fallen, further reinforced as the evil chap clearly shouts "Die, like your brothers!" Assuming that this is just a chummy way of acknowledging that Optimus is a Prime (and is not actually a literal brother to the Fallen- it seems more reasonable that he would be a nephew)- that still makes Megatron (as a brother of Optimus) a descendant of the Primes. As such, why can't he defeat the Fallen? More importantly, why isn't Megatron a Prime?
- As far as I know from listening to other people describe stuff that is All There in the Manual, its the standard "royalty raised by commoners to hide from the evil uncle" scenario. Megatron was his adopted brother, a commoner in this analogy, who got really, really, really jealous when Optimus turned out to be a Prime and he didn't. He got the position of Lord Protector through hard work, and then met The Fallen, who convinced him that if he helped Fallen, he too could become a Prime, something he felt he deserved more than Optimus. The Fallen was lying, but Megs doesn't learn this until Revenge Of The Fallen, by which point he's completely Axe Crazy and its too late to turn back.
- Which actually and brilliantly does make a lot of sense- except I do recall a source which states that "[Optimus and Megatron] were twin brothers of the Prime dynasty" and then continues with the idea that Megsy killed their father. This is then completely confused by the graphic novel series, which has Optimus unaware of his heritage until Megsy goes rampant in the first place. Hopefully this will cleared up in TF3.
Questions that perhaps could be best answered by "the characters are kind of dumb."
- The backstory of Revenge of the Fallen is that the Transformers produce energon by blowing stars up. Weird, but ok. Their only rule was that they would not drain any star that supported life. The Fallen got into trouble with the Primes, because he insisted on draining our sun. Now why in the unholy name of ass was he so stubborn about that??? There are plenty of other, not to mention larger, stars out there. Did our sun taste just a little more like chicken?
- The Fallen just hates humans that much. He talks about his disgust with the human race a few times, and seems to consider developing Energon a bonus compared to the opportunity to wipe us out. He's just that big of a dick.
- Even if i buy that one, it still just bugs me. Why would he just hate humans so much, that he is willing to piss off his own people for it? Surely, the primitive stone age people he met can't have been more than a minor nuisance.
- I guess he's just a robot supremicist, and figures us lower lifeforms don't deserve to live.
- I can to a certain extend accept that he hates humans, but not to such a degree that he's willing to risk everything he has to extinguish us.
- Well, when you think about it, he enacted his plan when there wasn't much risk to him, at least from his perspective: He had more Decepticons than Earth had Autobots and they were generally bigger and better armed, and he only ever set foot on Earth after the only Autobot that could kill him was safely dead. His main failing is that he and the other 'cons underestimated the humans.
- To the commenter who's "not buying" that the Fallen hates humans that much... the Fallen says he hates humans that much. At that point it doesn't really matter if it makes sense to you or not, that's the character's stated feeling. Maybe he showed up on Earth and at the first sight of a human just went "ARGLBLARGLFUCK I HATE THIS THING!!!!" He says he hates humans and wants to kill us, so that's what he's doing, that really ties it up pretty neatly.
- Keep in mind that in all the multiverse there is only one Fallen who ultimately acts towards Unicron's goals of universal destruction; he changes his appearance and origin story around from world to world, but his spark and memories remain, and all he does is to maximize entropy and whatnot. As a result of this, he is really, really, really Genre Savvy, and plans things out far in advance. In almost every timeline he's come across, the humans proved pivotal in helping the Autobots destroy the decepticons. As such, he thought it would be best to try and destroy the humans before they could become a problem. There was no way to be at all subtle about this, so he had to break his facade of being a good guy to do so. At least, that's the best I can figure from the contradictory data we have...
- That could make sense, for someone who is into Transformer lore. I, however, am not. All i have to go by is what the movie tells me. I find it a very weak argument for The Fallen's motivation that he just hates humans for no appearent reason. And that bugs me.
- Transformers lore aside, the movie seemed to say that the Energon is on Earth and that Energon deposits are incredibly rare. The Sun's destruction is just a necessary byproduct of harvesting it (it looked from the animation like the harvester collects and mixes the Sun's energy and the Energon together, or maybe the energy deposit on Earth only becomes Energon when the Sun's energy is added as well - that whole thing seemed a little convoluted to me too). The Fallen wasn't simply being vindictive; he was arguing that the Energon deposit on Earth is too rare and valuable to pass up just because humans are already living there. Taking the movie as its own continuity, the Fallen's hatred for humans probably only came about after the first harvesting attempt. At first he just saw humans as primitive vermin, but after all the trouble their existence sparked between him and the Primes, he now has a serious grudge against them.
- Also, I wonder if Earth tested their definitions of life in a way that'd never been done before. Even in other continuities, the transformers have always had a hard time making sense out of organic life forms; they tend to think of themselves as normal life, and us as the weirdos. It might be that their rules about inhabited planets originally only took Cybertronian-like life into account, and when they came across Earth and humans, it started a debate on whether we're really "alive" by their standards. Most of the Primes decided that yes, we are, while the Fallen (for reasons of his own) tried to insist that organic life doesn't count and the rule shouldn't apply to them.
- When Optimus asks for Sam's help, why didn't he just come out and explain the whole mind-download thing, avoiding much grief all around, rather than let Sam find out the hard way?
- Optimus didn't know about the mind-download thing. Sam never told him about the second shard, that we know of, and even Megatorn didn't know about it until The Fallen, the only one in the universe who would know, told him directly.
- The Fallen and the Decepticons plan was to harvest the Sun as energon, destroying the Sun and the Earth. Wouldn't this kill them all as well and destroy the Sun harvester, thus foiling their plan?
- They can survive in the depths of space. They don't need a sun to survive. The sun isn't going to go nova; that'd be a waste of its potential-energon energy. It'll basically be converted to energon and thereby "shut off"; we fleshy narrow-temperature range carbon-based life forms will die, whereas mechanical life forms will be perfectly fine as long as they get out of areas where they might get encased in frozen water (like Megatron before the first movie) before the sun shutoff (note that they were doing it in a desert, where its less of a risk).
- Minor point: Devs is made of several components, two of which are Mixmaster and Longhaul, a cement truck and dump truck, respectively. How, then, are they each seen fighting the military and the Autobots while Devastator is still climbing the pyramid? The scenes aren't just non-sequential, because the two each get their own death scene, meaning their separate from Devs. I suppose that some of the other random Decipticon cannon fodder could have taken the same altmodes, but why (and when) would they, when none of the others did?
- Before the film came out we were told we'd get two sets of toys regarding Devastator; larger toys that turned into robots, but didn't combine and smaller vehicles that just combined into the big robot. Everyone assumed this was some sort of cop-out on Hasbro's part. Turns out its an accurate reflection of the film: Devastator is made up of six construction vehicles, not Constructicons. The Constructicons just "happen" to coincidentally turn into the exact same vechiles as Devastator's components.
- The large Decepticon killed at the start of the movie was the same as the torso part of Devastator. So it's possible there were two of them originally, but one was neutered by lack of torso, and his limbs all went on to fight independently.
- Word Of God states that there were fifteen (down to fourteen after Demolishor bites it) Constructicons, and any number of them can combine into Devastator at one time. So they made a strategic decision to have six or seven Constructicons form Devastator while the remaining Constructicons (Mixmaster, Rampage, and Long Haul) joined in the regular assault.
- On the subject of Devastator, though: once the Constructicons (however many) form him, they utterly fail to deal with Mudflap and Skids. It seems to be that the large size brings with it a decrease in mobility and manueverabilty, so the two smaller robots are able to pick at the one giant one. But this is an elite combiner squad gifted with abilities most Decepticons don't have... why don't they simply uncombine to be just as mobile as the twins, and outnumber them 3 to 1 as well?
- Because Devastator wasn't there to deal with the Twins. It was there to rip off the top of the pyramid and uncover the Sun Crusher. It probably attacked them at first just because, hey, they're right there and he figured he could just wipe them out quick. When that proved not to be the case, he shrugged, turned around, and got on with his mission.
- Also, the Twins failed miserably in the fight. Skids basically managed to rescue Mudflap from Devastator, after which point Mudflap screwed up and they both fell off.
- No, the Twins fought Devastator and lived. In pretty much every Transformers canon, that generally goes in the "win" column, and it's certainly not failing miserably... if they failed miserably they'd be extremely dead.
- Surviving is not the same thing as winning, surviving is...surviving, nothing more. They survived an encounter with Devastator; they did not destroy him, they did not stop him from accomplishing his mission, they did not even hinder his ability to carry out said mission. Trying to say that is a victory amounts to nothing more than turd-polishing.
I Saw this Film for the Portrayal of International Relations
- Okay, so they got through one checkpoint via Simmons' being from NYC. However, given the region they were in and the specific area they were focused in, they would have encountered many more checkpoints, checkpoints ran by people much more professional and on-the-ball than that easily distracted dwarf. So, how did they get past them?
- Said dwarf was so thrilled he called ahead and gave the all-clear.
- While it can be understood that Sam and co and Bee were let through due to the dwarf loving New York, how the the heck did the twins get let through? They don't notice 2 cars with no drivers? And if they used holos they'd still have to explain how they're related to Simmons.
- Maybe they made their Holos look like Simmons. Or, since they were all grouped together, the dwarf thought "Oh, they're with New York City guy, so they're cool."
- I wonder how they got into and out of Israel so quickly in unmarked vehicles? Oh that's right, in a world where Israel has been wiped off the map...
- Why did they call for help from the Jordanians? They were in Egypt, so national sovereignty wasn't being violated, and Jordan has one of the world's weakest militaries.
- Maybe they called everyone, and the Jordan airbase was closer.
Where is Wheelie?
- What the hell happened to Wheelie in ROTF? I loved that guy...
- Assumedly, he stuck around with Mikaela and Sam. He probably wouldn't get involved in the end battle, seeing as the smallest Decepticons there were Ravage and Scorponok.
- He was staying out of the way because he had enough sensors to tell that the Warrior-Goddess wanted to mate with the boy, and he was afraid of disturbing her and incurring her wrath on his other photoreceptor.
Starscream and Megatron's Muppet Babies
- Starscream and Megatron make gay decepticon babbys. Really? REALLY?! WHY?! And wasn't he whole children-dormant-without-plot-device thing done in Van Helsing?
- Dude, just about everything about this film has been done in some other movie. And as for the 'con babies... well, you have to keep the fangirls happy somehow.
- Also, it has been explained in the novels and comics that Starscream's overall goal is to rebuild the Decepticon race rather than fight a war, hence why he directs his efforts to breeding upon Megatron's defeat in the first film. Megatron is more concerned with defeating Prime and the Autobots, this is why he shows little concern over the death of one of the hatchlings: he has lost his goal of preserving the species, while Starscream still clings to it.
- So...Is Starscream officialy a girl, then?
- Only if he self-identifies as one. Its not like transformers have genitalia, so it all comes down to self-image anyway.
- To which I can only reply: Devastator has two rather prominent wrecking balls which lead a character to report that "I am directly beneath the target's ... scrotum."
- I'm assuming that the wrecking balls are only unfortunately (read: immaturely) placed pieces of kibble, rather than actual reproductive organs.
- No way they're kibble. Not even Higtower (the crane) had even one wrecking ball, and it's the only piece that would. There's really no explanation for them to exist, apart from Rule of Funny.
- If one needed something aside from Rule of Funny, maybe they're part of one of Devastator's weapons that he just wound up never using onscreen, like a giant bola or something.
- So, after the existence of aliens is revealed to the American government as a whole, somebody makes the decision to dissolve Sector Seven, which handled potential extraterrestrial threats. Sure. I can buy Simmons getting canned; somebody's head was going to roll, and he made for an ideal fallguy, but dissolving S7 entirely? That made no sense.
- I got the impression that it was dissolved so as to divert those resources, funding, and personnel to support of NEST. Why so much S7 resources were tossed out I dunno- stigma against it due to its shameful actions during the Allspark Crisis, no doubt.
- I assumed a bit of Truth in Television here. When an agency fails spectacularly often the guys in charge will disband them and create a new agency to handle things better... which will mostly be made up of unionized workers shifted over from the now-disbanded agency.
- Here's one that I don't get. Sam has a fragment of the allspark, which can revive dead transformers. Optimus is dead. Sam revives Jetfire, so that he can go through a long and complicated quest to revive Optimus. I understand this is necessary for plot exposition and a device with which to defeat Fallen, but still. Why, Michael Bay, why?
- Sam didn't just want the Matrix to revive Optimus, he wanted it because the voices in his head, the voice of the Knowledge formerly stored in the Allspark, was compelling him to, what with telling him over and over and over (albiet in a language he couldn't understand, but some meaning must have gotten across). Put it simply, he wasn't able to think clearly and was being manipulated by the Allspark.
- Jetfire was offline just due to running out of Energon, Prime got ripped apart as did Megatron. Megatron needed spare parts from another Decepticon who was killed to give those parts. So the Autobots would need to tear apart one of their team members or capture/kill a Decepticon and weld pieces of his body onto Optimus Prime... The only Transformer we've seen onscreen to have his body repaired solely by the Allspark was Frenzy, he wasn't killed and is a freak of... whatever Cybertron has in place of nature.
- Also the Allspark was, you know, in one piece when Frenzy used it.
- One: last time Sam used the Allspark on stuff, it either died or turned into murderous little monsters that tried to murder him and anything in their way. Two: Sam did not know a shard of the Allspark could revive a Transformer, and had no way of knowing as Wheelie had to instruct him of what to do with the Allspark shard when they saw Jetfire. Three: Jetfire wasn't dead, just offline. Optimus Prime was pretty goshdarned dead.
- The battle in the first movie took place in a heavily populated area, in which there were bound to be tons of civilians with cameras/camera phones and (likely) newscameras in the vicinity. Plus, I'm sure most of the people in the city were aware of what was going on, especially because of the massive damage to the city that occurred. SO HOW THE HELL WOULD THE GOVERNMENT BE ABLE TO COVER ALL OF THAT UP?!?? That's like saying that the government could've covered up 9/11, Pearl Harbor, the Civil War, and the American Revolution if they wanted to!!
- This appeared earlier in the page somewhere, apparently the government said that it was very advanced drones gone beserk instead of aliens and pulled as much footage as possible. The battle also raged very quickly and moved from area to area, so there probably wasn't alot of time for many people to pull out their cameras or think about it with all the weapons fire flying around. Most people in the city would simply think it was some kind of terrorist attack and not bother to look at the giant pieces of strange weaponry that are shooting and killing people but instead run for their lives. Newspeople still need to drive to the action after they hear about it to film it so that explains a lack of them, there wasn't even a significant police force around and they are the ones news reporters follow. Also it didn't take a death toll of hundreds so that invalidates the Pearl Harbor comparison, and only one city so no Civil War and American Revolution comparisons. The World Trade Center attack took place over an hour, if the planes had hit the towers at the same time and the impact had utterly destroyed the buildings in minutes they could have claimed there were no planes and it was a faulty whatever, destroying any footage containing the planes. Also which are you going to believe, "Giant robot aliens who transform into vehicles were attacking and destroying buildings! The government took away my footage and put strange alien viruses on my computer destroying my backups and you have to believe me you must!" or "Some defense contracter was testing robots without proper safety protocols and they went and destroyed alot of the city, damn incompetent morons will kill us all one day".
- The damn incompetent moron comment reminds me of how governments(in movies that is) seems to promote the most ineffective jackasses who couldn't listen and cooperate with their own allies even when their lives depends... Like that government guy from the second movie. It's almost a surprise they managed to get things done with that idiot around. Which is probably why me found the part where he's tricked into jumping out of the plane to be very funny... Not to mention the satisfaction of the leader of those marines calling him "Dumbass".
Optimus Prime Died for Shia's Sins
- Okay, so I admit that I wasn't paying much attention during this movie, as I was preoccupied with much more interesting things (like counting the hairs on my arm, for example), but I noticed one major plot hole. So, Optimus Prime killed himself... to save Shia La Beouf, right? This is because Shia La Beouf was the chosen one or something, and it was important that he didn't die. But then, at the end of the movie, it was revealed that Shia La Beouf's destiny was to resurrect Optimus Prime, so in turn, he could stop the Fallen. So therefore... Optimus Prime killed himself... in order to resurrect himself. Wtf? Am I the only one who noticed this?
- You entirely misunderstood why Prime was protecting Sam, and are hung up on the idea of chosen ones and destinies. Optimus wasn't defending Sam because he was some "chosen one", but because protecting people in general is what Prime does. If Megatron had decided to smush some random schlub on the street, and Prime knew about it, Prime would fight just as hard to stop that as he was fighting to protect Sam. And Sam's "destiny" wasn't revealed to be to resurrect Optimus (and if it was, Optimus certainly couldn't have known about it anyway; he was trying not to die in the first place, after all). Reviving Prime was just something Sam found himself having to do so that Optimus could save the day.
- If you're trying that hard to insist that you didn't pay attention to the movie and were so successful in not caring about it, why would you come to a Headscratchers page and say "Hey guys, explain this plot hole in a movie I was far too cool and awesome to pay attention to, not that I care"?
- How is it that Bumblebee still can't talk during the second movie, even though he was able to speak at the end of the first movie and that he had two years since then to get his voice repaired? Are we really supposed to believe that the giant alien robots are able to transform into different vehicles, hack into satellites, create giant monoliths that can harvest suns for power and can resurrect themselves through ancient technology, but they aren't able to repair themselves?
- Sam nailed it on the head when he accused Bumblebee of just doing to be endearing. Bumblebee could talk if he wanted to, he just chooses not to, since it would reduce
- I believes that he can talk. But it's difficult for him. If you listened to him in the first film, when he says his two lines, his voice seems kinda scratchy. Not as fluid as how the rest of the Transformers talk. He might have had to go through some therapy to relearn how to talk or something with Ratchet. But Ratchet was called away to work with NEST. Although his scratchy voice may simply be because Bumblebee doesn't have a mouth (unless it's hidden behind that face thingie where his mouth would be). Please forgive me for not being so articulate with his wording.
- If Bumblebee is able to talk but doesn't because he thik s it's cuter not to, wouldn't he drop the charade when Optimus dies? When Sam thinks Bumblebee is going to blame him for the whole thing, wouldn't this be the time to stop joking around and actually talk to the guy porperly to reassure him? Even if his voice is still damaged, he could have at least tried.
- This is explained in the prequel comics (as is far too much unexplained stuff in the movies, in fact a great deal of this page can probably be answer with "in the comics." The "Alliance" prequel shows Bumblebee basically getting his voice broken again by Starscream (though no real reason is given as to why Ratchet couldn't fix it again)
- Sam nailed it on the head when he accused Bumblebee of just doing to be endearing. Bumblebee could talk if he wanted to, he just chooses not to, since it would reduce
Continuity Issues and Obscurely-Motivated Complaints
- I'm surprised no one's mentioned this one yet. In the first movie there's the scene where Shia La Beouf is running from Bumblebee on his mom's bike and enters some kind of time paradox. So the scene starts out with Shia complaining about how it's "Too early." He then spots Bumblebee and starts chasing him on his bike/running from him on his bike? Now it's suddenly mid-afternoon. The chase scene lasts for about a minute and then it's suddenly late at night. What the hell happened there? The only possible way this scene makes sense is if Shia had slept until about mid-afternoon and then got chased by Bumblebee for about seven hours. He should sign up for a bike marathon.
- yeah, that bothers me too. The scene starts at day, chase starts in late afternoon, and 2 minutes later it is night.
- When did Sam get that black glyph on his arm that he shows to the twins? Did I miss a scene?
- Probably just something he wrote there during one of his spaz-sessions.
- It bugs me that they cast Isabel Lucas in the second movie and didn't give her character any connection to Rachel Taylor's analyst character from the first movie. Did they not notice the resemblance between them?! There was limitless potential there.
- So... to your logic... any two people that look vaguely alike must have some sort of connection? ... Do you go around asking random black people if they know Will Smith?
- There's a part in the second movie (I'm not sure exactly which; I kind of was told about it) where there's a nice little whirlwind sucking up everything and throwing it around. And according to my younger brother, IT WAS SO KEWL. So WHY were there two people running away when everything else is getting sucked up around them? At the very LEAST, they should've gotten impaled by some flying debris.
- That was when Devastator was sucking up everything with his Vortex Grinder at the start of the climactic battle. And really, outrunning whirlwinds and not being hit by flying debris is a staple in movies ( Twister, anyone?).
- During the checkpoint scene, did nobody notice that there are two other cars that are driving themselves?
- All the Transformers seem able to generate a holographic driver.
- So why weren't they stopped for their passports?
- If you can make a holographic suit of clothing for your holographic driver, you can also make a holographic passport for him.
That's not Megatron...
- His appearance...transforms into a jet....obsessed with Matr...I mean, all-spark...that's not Megatron! That's Thunderwing!
Rail gun versus solar harvester
- Why didn't the Navy use their rail gun against the solar harvester?
- Shooting the giant robot on the pyramid is one thing. Asking someone to blow a hole in one of the most recognizable landmarks on Earth is something else entirely. It also might not be a rapid fire weapon, so they couldn't fire again after taking Devastator down.
- Second point is valid, and probably the true explanation (it was an experimental weapon after all), but the first... the military was engaging an alien invasion seeking to destroy OUR SUN, under such circumstances I seriously doubt any of the involved would care much about the pyramid.
- Blame Simmons then. He's the one providing the intel to Wilder. Simmons never suggests shooting the pyramid.
- They know how a transformer works well enough to know that shooting a rampaging Decepticon with a rail gun could only help things. The harvester? For all Simmons and the Navy knew, shooting it might simply hit the "on" button.
Mikaela more trustworthy than the Autobots?
- Why didn't Sam immediately hand out the Allspark shard to either Bumblebee, or later to Optimus? Why hide it with Mikaela? Does he not trust the Autobots or something? Not only that would have saved a lot of grief to all the involve, the shard is, well, Autobot property. It belongs to them, there is no reason to keep it hidden.
- The Autobots often go into battle and sometimes get killed. If he handed it off to Optimus and Optimus was defeated in battle, the Decepticons would get the Allspark shard. Mikaela is generally well away from any of the conflicts, thus there's much less likelihood that it would be taken from her. Besides, at that point the only Autobot around is Bumblebee, who is either going to be at Sam's parents' place or at college with Sam... all the others are on deployment, so Sam doesn't really have ample opportunity to just call them up and hand it over. Mikaela is right there, Sam likely knows she has a nice heavy-duty safe, he gives it to her as the best of his options.
Optimus Prime, enemy of transformers everywhere
- In the films, Optimus Prime has no plan.
His homeworld is lifeless, hence the Cube was needed to restore it, and then Optimus decides to destroy it completely rather than allow for the possibility to be used for evil purposes. Okay, so now what are they going to do?
From what we've seen, the Cube is what creates new Transformers. Optimus, by planning to destroy the Cube, has just condemned his entire race to a slow extinction. And then they decide to stay on Earth to continue to oppose the Decepticons, who at least are actively trying to ensure the survival of their race as a whole (if only as an evil army of conquest). I don't see him actively seeking sources of Energon for himself or his troops.Their only plan is to stay on Earth and protect it until they run out of Energon and die.
This happens again in the second movie when Optimus deliberately destroys the Sun-Eating machine which again could provide Energon, a much needed substance as Jetfire says that without it, the Transformers would rust up and die. I'm not saying Optimus shouldn't have stopped the Fallen from destroying that sun, but again, without that device to harvest more Energon he once again has condemned his species to slow extinction. I'm guessing that such a device is one of a kind or at least rare. He should have captured it and then he could have used it on a distant sun with no inhabited planets to restore his people's Energon.
If I were Optimus I would be just a little bit more loyal to the idea of my own species rather than one that I just encountered (humanity). What exactly does Optimus see in humanity that is worth risking the extinction of his own species for? Now I'm not saying that genocide is a good thing, but if it were a choice between my own species or risking another, I would have to side with my own and I wouldn't be so quick to destroy the only means of survival for my race.
In both movies, I was firmly rooting for Megatron, because at least he has been consistently fighting to keep his species alive, which is more than I can say for Optimus.
- He's Optimus fucking Prime, king of martyrs and Jesus-type characters. He sentenced his own species to extinction milennia ago when he sent the Cube out with no plan of ever finding it again - he decided all that time ago that if the continuing of the Cybertronian species means that someone Ax-Crazy like Megatron can keep conquering, it isn't worth it. Everything since then has been perpetuating that decision - to save the rest of the universe at the cost of himself and his own species. The way he figures it, there's no way to strengthen Cybertronians without also strengthening Decepticons - who would not only hurt the rest of the galaxy, but also Autobots and ultimately themselves, given their leader's madness. Its self-destructive, yes, but purposefully so.
- Megatron doesn't want to continue the species, that's Starscream's goal - he's the one thinking of his own species here. Megatron just wants more cannon fodder to throw at his enemies, "enemies" being defined as "all that live and have not sworn allegiance to him". Even if Megatron succeeded in turning all the machines on Earth into Transformers, he'd just throw them into battle without a care as to if they live or die.
- Plus, about the Harvester? Those things are built to sit where they are. The one on Earth is just one of many machines built for the purpose. The modern Transformers are more evolved than Jetfire, you might have noticed, so they might be able to subsist. The All Spark, Megatron desired to create troops from any convenient metal... even the cities of Cybertron. Plus, it held the only clue to the Matrix's location. The Transformers could adapt to live elsehow, I am certain.
- Finally, Optimus' decision to blow up the harvester is not as badly thought out as you make it. The harvester was armed, powering up, and would have started draining the sun inside a minute. Tack on to that two Decepticons who can and will make every possible effort to keep that thing running. Destroying it was the only option. He could not have possibly captured it before the entire human race died.
- Also also, in the first movie, Optimus did want to find the Allspark to help restore Cybertron. He didn't want to destroy it, he just decided destroying it was a better option than letting Megatron have it.
Ice cream trucks, roll out!
- The ice cream truck in the second movie. Yes, it's Crazy Awesome, but where did the Twins find and scan a workable van that's over 70 years old? In addition to that, why would you send a slow, ungainly vehicle that has a good chance of breaking in half into a combat and pursuit situation?
- Its not that it was an ice cream truck that made it vulnerable to breaking, its the fact that the twins aren't very good at transforming due to their incredibly young age. According to info All There in the Manual, they can't stay transformed for very long, so they combine into one vehicle mode to make it last longer; presumably that combined vehicle mode can't really hold up as sturdy as a one-bot vehicle mode. As for why? They're kids. They probably saw it in either the street somewhere or a picture online, and decided "hey, know what would be awesome? If we could kick ass looking like an ICE CREAM TRUCK! Yeah, man!". They're not exactly known for their maturity, tactical reasoning, or overall inteligence. Lord only knows why Optimus didn't put his foot down; he probably thought that, as kids, they needed some youthful high-spiritedness allowed.
- The Ice Cream truck was for that mission only according to toy bios, sending the twins in in advance undercover, while they regularly used seperate car modes, hence why they changed forms as soon as the mission was over.
No, no, we're the other NEST
- For some reason this has been bothering me since the second movie: Why is the team called NEST? There already IS a NEST team IRL, and they deal with nuclear threats. Borrowing the acronym just feels like a cop-out to me. Also, while I'm ranting about the NEST team, Why is it even necessary? How can the silly humans even assist the giant robots? From what the movie showed us, they're there to die in the crossfire.
- Were we watching the same movie? Sure, in the initial firefight they're not too effective, but that's because Demolishor ended up being a much, much bigger robot than they were expecting. In the climax of the first movie, the humans take down some Decepticons themselves, and much of the climax of the second movie has human artillery barrages fighting off the Decepticons. As for why they borrowed the acronym, plausible deniability. The Autobot-Human alliance is a secret, so if anyone lets slip they work for "NEST" or something, it can be waved off as that already existing team. Alternatively, given that nobody seems quite sure just what NEST stands for, maybe it's an offshoot of that nuclear threat division; I'm sure the Decepticons are considered as much a threat as nuclear weapons.
- Non-biological Entity Strike Team? I think I heard that somewhere.
Bumblebee's voice box
- Why can't they fix Bumblebee's voice box? He's a frickin' transformer - every bit of him can switch around! Can't he just transform it into one that works?
- As Sam points out, he probably can if he wanted too, but he just likes playing up the cute factor too much.
No Sound(wave) in space
- Soundwave. I understand that a cassette player isn't an option anymore, and at first the idea of a communications satellite made a lot of sense. And then I realized... if he's in space, then he cannot use the sonic-based weapons which Movie-verse Soundwave canonically has. Why would you keep your sonic warrior in space? And it kinda renders his name non-sensical.
- You keep him in space because his ability to hijack any and all communications your enemy makes without them ever catching on is more valuable than putting another gun on the ground. Soundwave is the whole reason the Decepticons are able to do anything in the plot.
- And a sonic attack doesn't even seem that potent against the Autobots. If you just wanted to wipe out humans, sure, but with the situation as it currently is, Soundwave is much more valuable in orbit. Especially when you factor in Ravage and whatever other symbiotes he has.
- Soundwave is a communications officer, he's probably up in space to gather info, like we saw during Galloway's interview with Optimus.
Mission City, aka Los Angeles?
- What bugs me is that throughout the first movie, they kept insisting on saying Mission City. When the second comes around, Leo makes a reference to the battle in L.A.
- The L.A. battle might have been separate, in-between the two films.
Wheelie versus airport security
- I can buy that Mikaela could capture Wheelie, him being a simple scrap bot, but how the hell did she manage to get him past airport security? Incompetence just plain doesn't cut it. From the outside, it's a box that shakes on its own power and talks. Not to mention there is a very complex Transformer inside, and Wheelie is not going to be cooperative by going into his truck mode.
- Wheelie has at least some sense of self preservation. He probably tried to shake the box at first in the hope of getting away, but gave it up and shifted to toy mode once he realized no-one had noticed. If he had gone through an x-ray undisguised he could have ended up captured by humans, specifically, humans who would freeze him and experiment on him for decades like they did to Megatron. And not only would that be unpleasant, but he'd lose his only lead on the Allspark shard, which would not make Soundwave a happy bot.
Optimus Prime's psychic powers
- In the first movie, Optimus Prime explains through a flashback on how the location of the Allspark were imprinted on Archibald Witwicky's glasses. But how would he know this? He wasn't present at the time. A similar occurrence happens again in the second movie, when the Decepticons chase Sam for the locations of the Matrix of Leadership embeded in his mind. How did the Decepticon's know the locations were in Sam's mind? Are the Transformers psychic?...
- In the former, Optimus had seen the picture of the glasses on E-bay, and, while the resolution wasn't good enough to actually read them, it was good enough to recognize what was printed on them. In the latter, it was simple extrapolation from the fact that when the Allspark was destroyed the stored knowledge had to go somewhere, and by proximity it must have gone into either him or Megatron. Since it didn't go into Megatron...
- Optimus stated that the Autobots can exploit the internet for information when he explained how they learned English so fast. Remember Sam's school report at the start of the movie about his great-great grandfather? Sam had an old newspaper talking about how Archibald Witwicky was locked up in a psycho ward for talking about this "giant iceman" and drew these "strange symbols" all the time. A couple of symbols were even on the newspaper and they were clearly Cybertronian. Since Optimus could access the internet, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume that he came across a digital copy of that same newspaper, probably in some library archive or something. Since he would recognize the symbols as Cybertronian and knew about Megatron, he probably put 2 and 2 together to figure out that Archibald's "iceman" was in fact a frozen Megatron, thus implying that Archibald had somehow crossed paths with Megatron resulting in the imprint on the glasses.
- For that matter, Sam might've jotted down some notes for his class report using his laptop, which contained the same information. Upon finding the glasses on eBay, Optimus could've hacked into his laptop to learn more about the human who was offering them for sale.
Only a prime (or Megatron?) can kill a prime
- In ROTF, The Fallen clearly states that "Only a Prime can kill Prime". But later in the movie, Megatron kills Optimus Prime in the forest battle. Since Megatron isn't a Prime, he shouldn't of been able to kill Optimus. In fact, it's even stated that Optimus is the only living desecendant of the Primes.
- According to the novelization, he wasn't actually dead per se, but in
a comastasis lock, and barely hanging on by a thread and too badly damaged to recover by conventional repair.
- In the novelization you say? So basically, it's all there in the manual.
- He doesn't say that. He says that only a Prime can kill him, The Fallen.
- Valid point. But what is it about a Prime that can kill The Fallen?
- Prime was probably immune to those awesome telekinetic powers that The Fallen would have otherwise dominated the fight with.
- According to the novelization, he wasn't actually dead per se, but in
Autobots off having coffee?
- Where were the Autobots when Optimus Prime was fighting Megatron, Starscream, and
BlackoutGrindor in the forest? I mean, they all busted in the warehouse like big damn heroes to save Sam. But when the fight continued in the forest, the rest of them disappeared. Plus, they couldn't of been busy fighting the Decepticons because all the Decepticons that was present in the warehouse WERE IN THE FOREST.
- Bumblebee and Prime were first on the scene, and they scattered upon getting the humans to relative safety. That doesn't explain why the rest of the Autobots weren't right on their tails, of course, but it is the general reason why they weren't present.
- The thing is, the NEST guys tracking the Autobots are shown saying that the Autobots split up before Prime and Bee reach Megatron et al. We're never given a reason for the split up, or where they're going, or anything. Did Prime and Bumblebee decide to take the Turnpike while the others took the Parkway? Did Prime die because Ironhide couldn't put together change for the tolls, or because they got caught in traffic on I-95? I'm sure he'd love that, "Sorry, Prime, but I didn't realize I was out of quarters."
Basically, the bulk of the Autobots are put out of the picture for no adequately explored reason just so that Prime can fight and die.
- There are more Decepticons on Earth than those three, though. Maybe the rest were sent specifically to keep Prime's allies distracted and ensure that he'd be killable.
- The government is probably uncomfortable with the idea of too many Autobots running around the place and esspecially after the Shanghia assault. It was probably bureaucratic obstruction that meant that by the time they were authorised to leave, it was too late.
- That's a good theory, but wrong as we see when they send an SOS to NEST that Prime's basically taken the entire Autobot force off with him minus Arcee. This however brings up a good point. Exactly how do the Autobots get permission to leave? Bumblebee gets to stay with Sam so long as he keeps a low profile, but the other Autobots seem confined to base whenever there isn't a mission. Prime being the senior Autobot might have permission to leave base as he wishes, but Prime takes nearly all the Autobots off with him on his rescue Sam mission. And in DOTM Prime takes Sentinel out on a casual drive, which might be acceptable because both are commanding officers but Sideswipe and Mirage later leave base to go help Sam with his idea to find out the link between the space program and the pillars. The same Sam who the director demanded distance himself from the Autobots because they only are allowed to work with Military and Sam is an unimportant civilian. But having two Autobots hang out with him is ok?
- During the battle, the camera cuts to the Autobots on their way to Prime's location. They were on their way, they just didn't get there in time.
The Fallen's English skills
- It is understandable how the Autobots and the Decepticons are able to speak English upon entry of earth via the World Wide Web. But how was The Fallen able to speak English when he appeared on The Nemesis? The only time he was on earth, before the second film's events, was in 17,000 BC. Back then, the Internet didn't even exist.
- Either Translation Convention or he got it wirelessly from Megs and/or Starscream.
Sam's lack of gratitude
- In the second film, when Sam and his father was getting attacked by evil appliance-bots, Sam calls out to Bumblebee for help. Bumblebee then bursts through the garage and takes out the apliance-bots as if they were nothing. Immediately afterwards, Sam scolds Bumblebee like a dog for hitting his house. You'd think he would be a little more thankful for Bumblebee saving his family life...
- Bumblebee could've done it without shooting his weapons—which, remember, are made to blow holes in hardened, shielded, armored alien robots—at the wood and sheetrock house. Like by grabbing the tiny bots and smushing them, for instance.
- He went a bit above and beyond the call of duty when he used a charged shot to blow up an entire corner of the house (Sam's room) when his precision shots were doing the job and the Appliancebots were no threat to him.
- True, but he wasn't shooting because the Appliancebots were a threat to him. He was shooting because they were a threat to his owner/friend and his family. Although he was reckless, Bumblee was just acting quickly to save them.
- Sam had just had part of his house... specifically his room... blown up after being attacked by freaky, psychotic little kill-bots on what was already a very stressful day. He took out some of his frustration by yelling at Bumblebee for blowing up his room. It's not saintly behavior, but Sam's only human. Bumblebee was probably a little hurt but also understood that Sam didn't really mean it and was just upset.
The U.S. rules the world?
- Why does Prime agree to leave earth if the US government tells him to? Are there not other country's the autobots can take refuge in? And since when did the US government become capable of banishment from the planet earth....
- None of the other countries knew about the war. Where would they go? Besides, it'd be a pretty big middle finger if the Autobots just went and signed with Britain. Not to mention the fact that it wouldn't solve any problems. The Decepticons were attacking worldwide.
- It was a UN decision to exile the Autobots, not a US-only decision.
No respect for Optimus
- Why do the helicopters disrespectfully drop Prime's body especially considering the other autobots were watching? Are they trying to piss off the only transformers that haven't tried to destroy humanity?
- They only dropped him like ten feet, and I imagine hauling his multi-ton robot carcass was probably rather difficult in the first place. To set him down gently would be nicer, but a lot harder for the crews to pull off.
- Not to mention time was a factor. At any given moment they could and would be attacked by Decepticons. Gently handling an alien robot corpse probably scoots down a few notches on the military's priorities at that moment.
- If anything the whole ordeal was evidence to them that Galloway's theory was correct, the Decepticons just want to hunt the Autobots and kidnapping Sam was just a lure. They also approached the Autobots with weapons drawn, things managed to calm down but it's pretty clear where things were heading.
- So how did the U.S. military get to the battle zone before the Egyptians? For that matter, why did we see Jordanian backup but no Egyptian?
- Or, for that matter, Israeli. A big deal is made about getting the Jordanians' help against the Decepticons and absolutely no mention is made of Israel, the premier military power in the area.
- The US was able to do it because they're already there, all the time. The US 6th Fleet and its associated Expeditionary Strike Groups basically live in the Mediterranean Sea. Not to mention that NEST is based out of PJOB Diego Garcia (slight assumption that it's PJOB and not NSF due to the UK involvement in NEST). Considering that this is Egypt though, it's perfectly understandable why the Jordanians would have an easier time being cleared for overflight instead of the Israelis. Israel and Egypt are not friends, after all, and an Israeli overflight into Egyptian territory runs the considerable risk of getting the multi-national defense agreements with the other Muslim nations (especially Iran) involved, since there wouldn't be enough time to let everyone know what was going on. All Iran (or anyone else) would see would be a bunch of Israeli aircraft running into Egypt. Given the tensions in the area, most of their agreements would dictate operating on an "Israel stuck our ally first and that's why we haven't heard anything" basis, starting a whole new round of warfare in the region, with a strong possibility of nuclear involvement, in the middle of a major Decepticon incursion. Not a good idea there, one might think. But still no idea why they didn't just call in the Egyptians, who have the largest military presence in the region and a decently modernised force as well as having allowed filming at the Pyramids, instead of just clearing an overflight from the Jordanians. Only explanation I can come up with is the bit about how the Jordanian Royals were huge fans of the first film, but that only explains the availability of Jordanian assets for filming, not the lack of Egyptian participation.