2 Hours Left to Support a Troper-Created Project : Personal Space (discuss)

History Headscratchers / TransformersRevengeOfTheFallen

8th Apr '16 7:37:54 PM ErikModi
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** Ebay. Both the Autobots and Decepticons were familiar with the glasses from the Ebay auction (Barricade asks Sam point-blank about "Ebay Item Whatever", immediately after the immortal "ARE YOU USERNAME LADIESMAN217?") and it stands to reason that they were aware the glasses were the key. As for the Allspark energy, The Fallen mentions that its energy can neither be created nor destroyed (in probably the only nod to actual science in the whole series), at which point Megatron realizes that Sam must have something he wants. . . again. The Autobots quite simply weren't aware that Sam had anything of importance until Megatron went after him, and even then, they may have just chalked it up to simple revenge (which actually seemed to be part of Megatron's motive). The fact that all the Autobots showed up to protect Sam is one part he's their friend, one part that's just what Autobots do: stop Decepticons from killing people.
8th Apr '16 7:29:08 PM ErikModi
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** Look at it this way: if your choices were to ensure humanity's eventual extinction, or allow the human race to survive under the unchallenged leadership of Adolf Hitler, which choice would ''you'' make?
29th Nov '15 9:30:35 PM Fox-Pirate-87
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**Soundwave is a communications officer, he's probably up in space to gather info, like we saw during Galloway's interview with Optimus.
29th Nov '15 9:28:10 PM Fox-Pirate-87
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**During the battle, the camera cuts to the Autobots on their way to Prime's location. They were on their way, they just didn't get there in time.
2nd Oct '15 5:59:16 PM Discar
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*** The Fallen's movie origins utterly contradict his Dreamwave stuff. I think we can safely throw that "Multivertial Singularity" crap out the window.
**** No, its still valid. Somehow. Good luck making heads or tails of the WordOfGod handwave, but it presumably covers the issue.

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*** ** The Fallen's movie origins utterly contradict his Dreamwave stuff. I think we can safely throw that "Multivertial Singularity" crap out the window.
**** ** No, its still valid. Somehow. Good luck making heads or tails of the WordOfGod handwave, but it presumably covers the issue.



*** Just like the posters for the movie said: "Their war, our world."

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*** ** Just like the posters for the movie said: "Their war, our world."



*** The concept being based in sci-fi is not an excuse for basic geography failure. If the premise is that this is happening on Earth, the locations should geographically resemble Earth. Having giant robots in the film doesn't excuse that.
*** Honestly, this isn't the first time the Transformers metaseries has [[http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Image:Europa_2000.jpg gotten an F in geography]]. It simply got the very same F in geography in front of a much bigger, much smarter audience.
*** "Smarter"? I'd like someone to ask a hundred random Americans about that little geography tidbit. See how many of them say "I don't know" or answer wrong. Or heck, a hundred random people, worldwide. I'm not sure the numbers would be much improved if you stuck to the Middle East, or even Egypt. [[OpinionMyopia A lot of people don't know that fact, a lot of people probably don't even care]], and if anyone extrapolates from that one geography mistake by one filmmaker and his writers to judge an entire nation, they're bigots.
*** Wrong Red Sea. Obviously it's Yam Suph, the "Sea of Reeds," which has to be somewhere near the pyramids if Hebrew slaves built them, then escaped by parting it.
*** Actually I take it back. Assuming Suez counts as the red sea, it's a two-hour drive from Giza. Not that bad.

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*** ** The concept being based in sci-fi is not an excuse for basic geography failure. If the premise is that this is happening on Earth, the locations should geographically resemble Earth. Having giant robots in the film doesn't excuse that.
*** ** Honestly, this isn't the first time the Transformers metaseries has [[http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Image:Europa_2000.jpg gotten an F in geography]]. It simply got the very same F in geography in front of a much bigger, much smarter audience.
*** ** "Smarter"? I'd like someone to ask a hundred random Americans about that little geography tidbit. See how many of them say "I don't know" or answer wrong. Or heck, a hundred random people, worldwide. I'm not sure the numbers would be much improved if you stuck to the Middle East, or even Egypt. [[OpinionMyopia A lot of people don't know that fact, a lot of people probably don't even care]], and if anyone extrapolates from that one geography mistake by one filmmaker and his writers to judge an entire nation, they're bigots.
*** ** Wrong Red Sea. Obviously it's Yam Suph, the "Sea of Reeds," which has to be somewhere near the pyramids if Hebrew slaves built them, then escaped by parting it.
*** ** Actually I take it back. Assuming Suez counts as the red sea, it's a two-hour drive from Giza. Not that bad.



*** Galvatron spent the time between ''The Transformers: The Movie'' and ''Five Faces of Darkness'' elbow-deep in lava on the planet Thrull. Cyclonus pulled him out and the only damage was to his mind. If the US government thought dropping Megs into a volcano would be the be-all end-all, they would be sadly mistaken.
**** Nice try, but the live-action transformers are demonstrably less resilient than those presented in the animated series / comic books who were for all intents and purposes immune to human weaponry. Dr Jones railgun from the comic-crossover was significant precisely because it could harm or destroy a transformer with one shot as opposed to thousands. The standards of the animated/comic continuity cannot be applied to the live-action films (a truth that works on multiple levels.)

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*** ** Galvatron spent the time between ''The Transformers: The Movie'' and ''Five Faces of Darkness'' elbow-deep in lava on the planet Thrull. Cyclonus pulled him out and the only damage was to his mind. If the US government thought dropping Megs into a volcano would be the be-all end-all, they would be sadly mistaken.
**** ** Nice try, but the live-action transformers are demonstrably less resilient than those presented in the animated series / comic books who were for all intents and purposes immune to human weaponry. Dr Jones railgun from the comic-crossover was significant precisely because it could harm or destroy a transformer with one shot as opposed to thousands. The standards of the animated/comic continuity cannot be applied to the live-action films (a truth that works on multiple levels.)



*** Doesn't work for me; the film Decepticons aren't known for their subtlety, and Alice's "seduction" routine was blatant FanService. It'd have been more plausible if she had just stabbed him and then dump the body/drag Sam to Megatron/whatever instead.
*** They aren't known for their subtlety? They were on Earth years before the events of the first movie, without anyone learning about them. They were doing the same thing then: Hiding in plain sight as they gathered information, and they moved to strike when they either knew where they had to go, or they knew they couldn't avoid it to get to their objective.

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*** ** Doesn't work for me; the film Decepticons aren't known for their subtlety, and Alice's "seduction" routine was blatant FanService. It'd have been more plausible if she had just stabbed him and then dump the body/drag Sam to Megatron/whatever instead.
*** ** They aren't known for their subtlety? They were on Earth years before the events of the first movie, without anyone learning about them. They were doing the same thing then: Hiding in plain sight as they gathered information, and they moved to strike when they either knew where they had to go, or they knew they couldn't avoid it to get to their objective.



* I thinks Alice should have been left on the cutting room floor, because she raises a whole slew of questions such as why the Decepticons don't impersonate humans more often. They could have set their sights way higher than just seducing Sam. Especially if they're able to fool Autobots as well. Why else would Bumblebee only humiliate her like some sorority tramp trying to tempt Sam into cheating instead of killing her on sight like the ''Decepticon'' tramp she was?

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* ** I thinks Alice should have been left on the cutting room floor, because she raises a whole slew of questions such as why the Decepticons don't impersonate humans more often. They could have set their sights way higher than just seducing Sam. Especially if they're able to fool Autobots as well. Why else would Bumblebee only humiliate her like some sorority tramp trying to tempt Sam into cheating instead of killing her on sight like the ''Decepticon'' tramp she was?



*** It does bring up the question of why Sam immediately trusts the parents he's presented with by the Decepticons, now that he knows they can impersonate humans. The animatronic thing clears that up, but that scene got cut so what's its canon status?
**** Its in the novelization, at least. That's gotta count for something.

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*** ** It does bring up the question of why Sam immediately trusts the parents he's presented with by the Decepticons, now that he knows they can impersonate humans. The animatronic thing clears that up, but that scene got cut so what's its canon status?
**** ** Its in the novelization, at least. That's gotta count for something.



*** Which actually and brilliantly does make a lot of sense- except I do recall a source which states that "[Optimus and Megatron] were twin brothers of the Prime dynasty" and then continues with the idea that Megsy killed their father. This is then completely confused by the graphic novel series, which has Optimus unaware of his heritage until Megsy goes rampant in the first place. Hopefully this will cleared up in [=TF3=].

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*** ** Which actually and brilliantly does make a lot of sense- except I do recall a source which states that "[Optimus and Megatron] were twin brothers of the Prime dynasty" and then continues with the idea that Megsy killed their father. This is then completely confused by the graphic novel series, which has Optimus unaware of his heritage until Megsy goes rampant in the first place. Hopefully this will cleared up in [=TF3=].



*** Even if i buy that one, it still just bugs me. Why would he just hate humans ''so much'', that he is willing to piss off his own people for it? Surely, the primitive stone age people he met can't have been more than a minor nuisance.
*** I guess he's just a robot supremicist, and figures us lower lifeforms don't deserve to live.
*** I can to a certain extend accept that he hates humans, but not to such a degree that he's willing to risk everything he has to extinguish us.
*** Well, when you think about it, he enacted his plan when there wasn't much risk to him, at least from his perspective: He had more Decepticons than Earth had Autobots and they were generally bigger and better armed, and he only ever set foot on Earth after the only Autobot that could kill him was safely dead. His main failing is that he and the other 'cons underestimated the humans.
*** To the commenter who's "not buying" that the Fallen hates humans that much... the Fallen ''says'' he ''hates humans that much''. At that point it doesn't really matter if it makes sense to you or not, that's the character's stated feeling. Maybe he showed up on Earth and at the first sight of a human just went "ARGLBLARGLFUCK I HATE THIS THING!!!!" He says he hates humans and wants to kill us, so that's what he's doing, that really ties it up pretty neatly.

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*** ** Even if i buy that one, it still just bugs me. Why would he just hate humans ''so much'', that he is willing to piss off his own people for it? Surely, the primitive stone age people he met can't have been more than a minor nuisance.
*** ** I guess he's just a robot supremicist, and figures us lower lifeforms don't deserve to live.
*** ** I can to a certain extend accept that he hates humans, but not to such a degree that he's willing to risk everything he has to extinguish us.
*** ** Well, when you think about it, he enacted his plan when there wasn't much risk to him, at least from his perspective: He had more Decepticons than Earth had Autobots and they were generally bigger and better armed, and he only ever set foot on Earth after the only Autobot that could kill him was safely dead. His main failing is that he and the other 'cons underestimated the humans.
*** ** To the commenter who's "not buying" that the Fallen hates humans that much... the Fallen ''says'' he ''hates humans that much''. At that point it doesn't really matter if it makes sense to you or not, that's the character's stated feeling. Maybe he showed up on Earth and at the first sight of a human just went "ARGLBLARGLFUCK I HATE THIS THING!!!!" He says he hates humans and wants to kill us, so that's what he's doing, that really ties it up pretty neatly.



*** That could make sense, for someone who is into Transformer lore. I, however, am not. All i have to go by is what the movie tells me. I find it a very weak argument for The Fallen's motivation that he just hates humans for no appearent reason. And that bugs me.
**** Transformers lore aside, the movie seemed to say that the Energon is on Earth and that Energon deposits are incredibly rare. The Sun's destruction is just a necessary byproduct of harvesting it (it looked from the animation like the harvester collects and mixes the Sun's energy and the Energon together, or maybe the energy deposit on Earth only becomes Energon when the Sun's energy is added as well - that whole thing seemed a little convoluted to me too). The Fallen wasn't simply being vindictive; he was arguing that the Energon deposit on Earth is too rare and valuable to pass up just because humans are already living there. Taking the movie as its own continuity, the Fallen's hatred for humans probably only came about after the first harvesting attempt. At first he just saw humans as primitive vermin, but after all the trouble their existence sparked between him and the Primes, he now has a ''serious'' grudge against them.
***** Also, I wonder if Earth tested their definitions of life in a way that'd never been done before. Even in other continuities, the transformers have always had a hard time making sense out of organic life forms; they tend to think of themselves as normal life, and us as the weirdos. It might be that their rules about inhabited planets originally only took Cybertronian-like life into account, and when they came across Earth and humans, it started a debate on whether we're really "alive" by their standards. Most of the Primes decided that yes, we are, while the Fallen (for reasons of his own) tried to insist that organic life doesn't count and the rule shouldn't apply to them.

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*** ** That could make sense, for someone who is into Transformer lore. I, however, am not. All i have to go by is what the movie tells me. I find it a very weak argument for The Fallen's motivation that he just hates humans for no appearent reason. And that bugs me.
**** ** Transformers lore aside, the movie seemed to say that the Energon is on Earth and that Energon deposits are incredibly rare. The Sun's destruction is just a necessary byproduct of harvesting it (it looked from the animation like the harvester collects and mixes the Sun's energy and the Energon together, or maybe the energy deposit on Earth only becomes Energon when the Sun's energy is added as well - that whole thing seemed a little convoluted to me too). The Fallen wasn't simply being vindictive; he was arguing that the Energon deposit on Earth is too rare and valuable to pass up just because humans are already living there. Taking the movie as its own continuity, the Fallen's hatred for humans probably only came about after the first harvesting attempt. At first he just saw humans as primitive vermin, but after all the trouble their existence sparked between him and the Primes, he now has a ''serious'' grudge against them.
***** ** Also, I wonder if Earth tested their definitions of life in a way that'd never been done before. Even in other continuities, the transformers have always had a hard time making sense out of organic life forms; they tend to think of themselves as normal life, and us as the weirdos. It might be that their rules about inhabited planets originally only took Cybertronian-like life into account, and when they came across Earth and humans, it started a debate on whether we're really "alive" by their standards. Most of the Primes decided that yes, we are, while the Fallen (for reasons of his own) tried to insist that organic life doesn't count and the rule shouldn't apply to them.



*** Because Devastator wasn't there to deal with the Twins. It was there to rip off the top of the pyramid and uncover the Sun Crusher. It probably attacked them at first just because, hey, they're right there and he figured he could just wipe them out quick. When that proved not to be the case, he shrugged, turned around, and got on with his mission.
*** Also, the Twins failed miserably in the fight. Skids basically managed to rescue Mudflap from Devastator, after which point Mudflap screwed up and they both fell off.
*** No, the Twins fought Devastator and ''lived''. In pretty much every Transformers canon, that generally goes in the "win" column, and it's certainly not failing miserably... if they failed miserably they'd be extremely dead.
**** Surviving is not the same thing as winning, surviving is...surviving, nothing more. They survived an encounter with Devastator; they did not destroy him, they did not stop him from accomplishing his mission, they did not even hinder his ability to carry out said mission. Trying to say that is a victory amounts to nothing more than turd-polishing.

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*** ** Because Devastator wasn't there to deal with the Twins. It was there to rip off the top of the pyramid and uncover the Sun Crusher. It probably attacked them at first just because, hey, they're right there and he figured he could just wipe them out quick. When that proved not to be the case, he shrugged, turned around, and got on with his mission.
*** ** Also, the Twins failed miserably in the fight. Skids basically managed to rescue Mudflap from Devastator, after which point Mudflap screwed up and they both fell off.
*** ** No, the Twins fought Devastator and ''lived''. In pretty much every Transformers canon, that generally goes in the "win" column, and it's certainly not failing miserably... if they failed miserably they'd be extremely dead.
**** ** Surviving is not the same thing as winning, surviving is...surviving, nothing more. They survived an encounter with Devastator; they did not destroy him, they did not stop him from accomplishing his mission, they did not even hinder his ability to carry out said mission. Trying to say that is a victory amounts to nothing more than turd-polishing.



*** While it can be understood that Sam and co and Bee were let through due to the dwarf loving New York, how the the heck did the twins get let through? They don't notice 2 cars with no drivers? And if they used holos they'd still have to explain how they're related to Simmons.
*** Maybe they made their Holos look like Simmons. Or, since they were all grouped together, the dwarf thought "Oh, they're with New York City guy, so they're cool."

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*** ** While it can be understood that Sam and co and Bee were let through due to the dwarf loving New York, how the the heck did the twins get let through? They don't notice 2 cars with no drivers? And if they used holos they'd still have to explain how they're related to Simmons.
*** ** Maybe they made their Holos look like Simmons. Or, since they were all grouped together, the dwarf thought "Oh, they're with New York City guy, so they're cool."



*** Also, it has been explained in the novels and comics that Starscream's overall goal is to rebuild the Decepticon race rather than fight a war, hence why he directs his efforts to breeding upon Megatron's defeat in the first film. Megatron is more concerned with defeating Prime and the Autobots, this is why he shows little concern over the death of one of the hatchlings: he has lost his goal of preserving the species, while Starscream still clings to it.
**** So...Is Starscream officialy a girl, then?
***** Only if he self-identifies as one. Its not like transformers have genitalia, so it all comes down to self-image anyway.
***** To which I can only reply: Devastator has two rather prominent wrecking balls which lead a character to report that "I am directly beneath the target's ... scrotum."
***** I'm assuming that the wrecking balls are only unfortunately (read: immaturely) placed pieces of kibble, rather than actual reproductive organs.
****** No way they're kibble. Not even Higtower (the crane) had even ''one'' wrecking ball, and it's the only piece that would. There's really no explanation for them to exist, apart from RuleOfFunny.
*** If one needed something aside from RuleOfFunny, maybe they're part of one of Devastator's weapons that he just wound up never using onscreen, like a giant bola or something.

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*** ** Also, it has been explained in the novels and comics that Starscream's overall goal is to rebuild the Decepticon race rather than fight a war, hence why he directs his efforts to breeding upon Megatron's defeat in the first film. Megatron is more concerned with defeating Prime and the Autobots, this is why he shows little concern over the death of one of the hatchlings: he has lost his goal of preserving the species, while Starscream still clings to it.
**** ** So...Is Starscream officialy a girl, then?
***** ** Only if he self-identifies as one. Its not like transformers have genitalia, so it all comes down to self-image anyway.
***** ** To which I can only reply: Devastator has two rather prominent wrecking balls which lead a character to report that "I am directly beneath the target's ... scrotum."
***** ** I'm assuming that the wrecking balls are only unfortunately (read: immaturely) placed pieces of kibble, rather than actual reproductive organs.
****** ** No way they're kibble. Not even Higtower (the crane) had even ''one'' wrecking ball, and it's the only piece that would. There's really no explanation for them to exist, apart from RuleOfFunny.
*** ** If one needed something aside from RuleOfFunny, maybe they're part of one of Devastator's weapons that he just wound up never using onscreen, like a giant bola or something.



*** Also the Allspark was, you know, in one piece when Frenzy used it.

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*** ** Also the Allspark was, you know, in one piece when Frenzy used it.



*** The damn incompetent moron comment reminds me of how governments(in movies that is) seems to promote the most ineffective jackasses who couldn't listen and cooperate with their own allies even when their lives depends... Like that government guy from the second movie. It's almost a surprise they managed to get things done with that idiot around. Which is probably why me found the part where he's tricked into jumping out of the plane to be very funny... Not to mention the satisfaction of the leader of those marines calling him "Dumbass".

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*** ** The damn incompetent moron comment reminds me of how governments(in movies that is) seems to promote the most ineffective jackasses who couldn't listen and cooperate with their own allies even when their lives depends... Like that government guy from the second movie. It's almost a surprise they managed to get things done with that idiot around. Which is probably why me found the part where he's tricked into jumping out of the plane to be very funny... Not to mention the satisfaction of the leader of those marines calling him "Dumbass".



*** If Bumblebee is able to talk but doesn't because he thik s it's cuter not to, wouldn't he drop the charade when Optimus dies? When Sam thinks Bumblebee is going to blame him for the whole thing, wouldn't this be the time to stop joking around and actually talk to the guy porperly to reassure him? Even if his voice is still damaged, he could have at least tried.
*** This is explained in the prequel comics (as is far too much unexplained stuff in the movies, in fact a great deal of this page can probably be answer with "in the comics." The "Alliance" prequel shows Bumblebee basically getting his voice broken again by Starscream (though no real reason is given as to why Ratchet couldn't fix it again)

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*** ** If Bumblebee is able to talk but doesn't because he thik s it's cuter not to, wouldn't he drop the charade when Optimus dies? When Sam thinks Bumblebee is going to blame him for the whole thing, wouldn't this be the time to stop joking around and actually talk to the guy porperly to reassure him? Even if his voice is still damaged, he could have at least tried.
*** ** This is explained in the prequel comics (as is far too much unexplained stuff in the movies, in fact a great deal of this page can probably be answer with "in the comics." The "Alliance" prequel shows Bumblebee basically getting his voice broken again by Starscream (though no real reason is given as to why Ratchet couldn't fix it again)



*** So why weren't they stopped for their passports?
**** If you can make a holographic suit of clothing for your holographic driver, you can also make a holographic passport for him.

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*** ** So why weren't they stopped for their passports?
**** ** If you can make a holographic suit of clothing for your holographic driver, you can also make a holographic passport for him.



*** Second point is valid, and probably the true explanation (it was an experimental weapon after all), but the first... the military was engaging an alien invasion seeking to destroy OUR SUN, under such circumstances I seriously doubt any of the involved would care much about the pyramid.
**** Blame Simmons then. He's the one providing the intel to Wilder. Simmons never suggests shooting the pyramid.
**** They know how a transformer works well enough to know that shooting a rampaging Decepticon with a rail gun could only help things. The harvester? For all Simmons and the Navy knew, shooting it might simply hit the "on" button.

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*** ** Second point is valid, and probably the true explanation (it was an experimental weapon after all), but the first... the military was engaging an alien invasion seeking to destroy OUR SUN, under such circumstances I seriously doubt any of the involved would care much about the pyramid.
**** ** Blame Simmons then. He's the one providing the intel to Wilder. Simmons never suggests shooting the pyramid.
**** ** They know how a transformer works well enough to know that shooting a rampaging Decepticon with a rail gun could only help things. The harvester? For all Simmons and the Navy knew, shooting it might simply hit the "on" button.



*** The Ice Cream truck was for that mission only according to toy bios, sending the twins in in advance undercover, while they regularly used seperate car modes, hence why they changed forms as soon as the mission was over.

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*** ** The Ice Cream truck was for that mission only according to toy bios, sending the twins in in advance undercover, while they regularly used seperate car modes, hence why they changed forms as soon as the mission was over.



*** And a sonic attack doesn't even seem that potent against the Autobots. If you just wanted to wipe out humans, sure, but with the situation as it currently is, Soundwave is much more valuable in orbit. Especially when you factor in Ravage and whatever other symbiotes he has.

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*** ** And a sonic attack doesn't even seem that potent against the Autobots. If you just wanted to wipe out humans, sure, but with the situation as it currently is, Soundwave is much more valuable in orbit. Especially when you factor in Ravage and whatever other symbiotes he has.



*** For that matter, Sam might've jotted down some notes for his class report using his laptop, which contained the same information. Upon finding the glasses on eBay, Optimus could've hacked into his laptop to learn more about the human who was offering them for sale.

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*** ** For that matter, Sam might've jotted down some notes for his class report using his laptop, which contained the same information. Upon finding the glasses on eBay, Optimus could've hacked into his laptop to learn more about the human who was offering them for sale.



*** In the novelization you say? So basically, [[AllThereInTheManual it's all there in the manual]].

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*** ** In the novelization you say? So basically, [[AllThereInTheManual it's all there in the manual]].



*** Valid point. But what is it about a Prime that can kill The Fallen?
**** Prime was probably immune to those awesome telekinetic powers that The Fallen would have otherwise dominated the fight with.

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*** ** Valid point. But what is it about a Prime that can kill The Fallen?
**** ** Prime was probably immune to those awesome telekinetic powers that The Fallen would have otherwise dominated the fight with.



*** There ''are'' more Decepticons on Earth than those three, though. Maybe the rest were sent specifically to keep Prime's allies distracted and ensure that he'd be killable.
*** The government is probably uncomfortable with the idea of too many Autobots running around the place and esspecially after the Shanghia assault. It was probably bureaucratic obstruction that meant that by the time they were authorised to leave, it was too late.
**** That's a good theory, but wrong as we see when they send an SOS to NEST that Prime's basically taken the entire Autobot force off with him minus Arcee. This however brings up a good point. Exactly how do the Autobots get permission to leave? Bumblebee gets to stay with Sam so long as he keeps a low profile, but the other Autobots seem confined to base whenever there isn't a mission. Prime being the senior Autobot might have permission to leave base as he wishes, but Prime takes nearly all the Autobots off with him on his rescue Sam mission. And in DOTM Prime takes Sentinel out on a casual drive, which might be acceptable because both are commanding officers but Sideswipe and Mirage later leave base to go help Sam with his idea to find out the link between the space program and the pillars. The same Sam who the director demanded distance himself from the Autobots because they only are allowed to work with Military and Sam is an unimportant civilian. But having two Autobots hang out with him is ok?

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*** ** There ''are'' more Decepticons on Earth than those three, though. Maybe the rest were sent specifically to keep Prime's allies distracted and ensure that he'd be killable.
*** ** The government is probably uncomfortable with the idea of too many Autobots running around the place and esspecially after the Shanghia assault. It was probably bureaucratic obstruction that meant that by the time they were authorised to leave, it was too late.
**** ** That's a good theory, but wrong as we see when they send an SOS to NEST that Prime's basically taken the entire Autobot force off with him minus Arcee. This however brings up a good point. Exactly how do the Autobots get permission to leave? Bumblebee gets to stay with Sam so long as he keeps a low profile, but the other Autobots seem confined to base whenever there isn't a mission. Prime being the senior Autobot might have permission to leave base as he wishes, but Prime takes nearly all the Autobots off with him on his rescue Sam mission. And in DOTM Prime takes Sentinel out on a casual drive, which might be acceptable because both are commanding officers but Sideswipe and Mirage later leave base to go help Sam with his idea to find out the link between the space program and the pillars. The same Sam who the director demanded distance himself from the Autobots because they only are allowed to work with Military and Sam is an unimportant civilian. But having two Autobots hang out with him is ok?



*** True, but he wasn't shooting because the Appliancebots were a threat to him. He was shooting because they were a threat to his owner/friend and his family. Although he was reckless, Bumblee was just acting quickly to save them.
*** Sam had just had part of his house... specifically ''his room''... blown up after being attacked by freaky, psychotic little kill-bots on what was already a very stressful day. He took out some of his frustration by yelling at Bumblebee for blowing up his room. It's not saintly behavior, but Sam's only human. Bumblebee was probably a little hurt but also understood that Sam didn't really mean it and was just upset.

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*** ** True, but he wasn't shooting because the Appliancebots were a threat to him. He was shooting because they were a threat to his owner/friend and his family. Although he was reckless, Bumblee was just acting quickly to save them.
*** ** Sam had just had part of his house... specifically ''his room''... blown up after being attacked by freaky, psychotic little kill-bots on what was already a very stressful day. He took out some of his frustration by yelling at Bumblebee for blowing up his room. It's not saintly behavior, but Sam's only human. Bumblebee was probably a little hurt but also understood that Sam didn't really mean it and was just upset.



*** Not to mention time was a factor. At any given moment they could and would be attacked by Decepticons. Gently handling an alien robot corpse probably scoots down a few notches on the military's priorities at that moment.

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*** ** Not to mention time was a factor. At any given moment they could and would be attacked by Decepticons. Gently handling an alien robot corpse probably scoots down a few notches on the military's priorities at that moment.
30th Sep '15 11:49:13 PM Whistler
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**** Surviving is not the same thing as winning, surviving is...surviving, nothing more. They survived an encounter with Devastator; they did not destroy him, they did not stop him from accomplishing his mission, they did not even hinder his ability to carry out said mission. Trying to say that is a victory amounts to nothing more than turd-polishing.
30th Sep '15 11:39:59 PM Whistler
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**** Nice try, but the live-action transformers are demonstrably less resilient than those presented in the animated series / comic books who were for all intents and purposes immune to human weaponry. Dr Jones railgun from the comic-crossover was significant precisely because it could harm or destroy a transformer with one shot as opposed to thousands. The standards of the animated/comic continuity cannot be applied to the live-action films (a truth that works on multiple levels.)
23rd Jul '15 2:47:59 PM dunerat
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** The US was able to do it because they're already there, all the time. The US 6th Fleet and its associated Expeditionary Strike Groups basically live in the Mediterranean Sea. Not to mention that NEST is based out of PJOB Diego Garcia (slight assumption that it's PJOB and not NSF due to the UK involvement in NEST). Considering that this ''is'' Egypt though, it's perfectly understandable why the Jordanians would have an easier time being cleared for overflight instead of the Israelis. Israel and Egypt are not friends, after all, and an Israeli overflight into Egyptian territory runs the considerable risk of getting the multi-national defense agreements with the other Muslim nations (especially Iran) involved, since there wouldn't be enough time to let everyone know what was going on. All Iran (or anyone else) would see would be a bunch of Israeli aircraft running into Egypt. Given the tensions in the area, most of their agreements would dictate operating on an "Israel stuck our ally first and that's why we haven't heard anything" basis, starting a whole new round of warfare in the region, with a strong possibility of nuclear involvement, in the middle of a major Decepticon incursion. Not a good idea there, one might think. But still no idea why they didn't just call in the Egyptians, who have the largest military presence in the region and a decently modernised force as well, instead of just clearing an overflight from the Jordanians.

to:

** The US was able to do it because they're already there, all the time. The US 6th Fleet and its associated Expeditionary Strike Groups basically live in the Mediterranean Sea. Not to mention that NEST is based out of PJOB Diego Garcia (slight assumption that it's PJOB and not NSF due to the UK involvement in NEST). Considering that this ''is'' Egypt though, it's perfectly understandable why the Jordanians would have an easier time being cleared for overflight instead of the Israelis. Israel and Egypt are not friends, after all, and an Israeli overflight into Egyptian territory runs the considerable risk of getting the multi-national defense agreements with the other Muslim nations (especially Iran) involved, since there wouldn't be enough time to let everyone know what was going on. All Iran (or anyone else) would see would be a bunch of Israeli aircraft running into Egypt. Given the tensions in the area, most of their agreements would dictate operating on an "Israel stuck our ally first and that's why we haven't heard anything" basis, starting a whole new round of warfare in the region, with a strong possibility of nuclear involvement, in the middle of a major Decepticon incursion. Not a good idea there, one might think. But still no idea why they didn't just call in the Egyptians, who have the largest military presence in the region and a decently modernised force as well, well as having allowed filming at the Pyramids, instead of just clearing an overflight from the Jordanians.
Jordanians. Only explanation I can come up with is the bit about how the Jordanian Royals were huge fans of the first film, but that only explains the availability of Jordanian assets for filming, not the lack of Egyptian participation.
23rd Jul '15 2:20:12 PM dunerat
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** The US was able to do it because they're already there, all the time. The US 6th Fleet and its associated Expeditionary Strike Groups basically live in the Mediterranean Sea. Not to mention that NEST is based out of PJOB Diego Garcia (slight assumption that it's PJOB and not NSF due to the UK involvement in NEST). Considering that this ''is'' Egypt though, it's perfectly understandable why the Jordanians would have an easier time being cleared for overflight instead of the Israelis. Israel and Egypt are not friends, after all, and an Israeli overflight into Egyptian territory runs the considerable risk of getting the multi-national defense agreements with the other Muslim nations (especially Iran) involved, since there wouldn't be enough time to let everyone know what was going on. All Iran (or anyone else) would see would be a bunch of Israeli aircraft running into Egypt. Given the tensions in the area, most of their agreements would dictate operating on an "Israel stuck our ally first and that's why we haven't heard anything" basis, starting a whole new round of warfare in the region, with a strong possibility of nuclear involvement, in the middle of a major Decepticon incursion. Not a good idea there, one might think.

to:

** The US was able to do it because they're already there, all the time. The US 6th Fleet and its associated Expeditionary Strike Groups basically live in the Mediterranean Sea. Not to mention that NEST is based out of PJOB Diego Garcia (slight assumption that it's PJOB and not NSF due to the UK involvement in NEST). Considering that this ''is'' Egypt though, it's perfectly understandable why the Jordanians would have an easier time being cleared for overflight instead of the Israelis. Israel and Egypt are not friends, after all, and an Israeli overflight into Egyptian territory runs the considerable risk of getting the multi-national defense agreements with the other Muslim nations (especially Iran) involved, since there wouldn't be enough time to let everyone know what was going on. All Iran (or anyone else) would see would be a bunch of Israeli aircraft running into Egypt. Given the tensions in the area, most of their agreements would dictate operating on an "Israel stuck our ally first and that's why we haven't heard anything" basis, starting a whole new round of warfare in the region, with a strong possibility of nuclear involvement, in the middle of a major Decepticon incursion. Not a good idea there, one might think.
think. But still no idea why they didn't just call in the Egyptians, who have the largest military presence in the region and a decently modernised force as well, instead of just clearing an overflight from the Jordanians.
23rd Jul '15 2:17:01 PM dunerat
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to:

**The US was able to do it because they're already there, all the time. The US 6th Fleet and its associated Expeditionary Strike Groups basically live in the Mediterranean Sea. Not to mention that NEST is based out of PJOB Diego Garcia (slight assumption that it's PJOB and not NSF due to the UK involvement in NEST). Considering that this ''is'' Egypt though, it's perfectly understandable why the Jordanians would have an easier time being cleared for overflight instead of the Israelis. Israel and Egypt are not friends, after all, and an Israeli overflight into Egyptian territory runs the considerable risk of getting the multi-national defense agreements with the other Muslim nations (especially Iran) involved, since there wouldn't be enough time to let everyone know what was going on. All Iran (or anyone else) would see would be a bunch of Israeli aircraft running into Egypt. Given the tensions in the area, most of their agreements would dictate operating on an "Israel stuck our ally first and that's why we haven't heard anything" basis, starting a whole new round of warfare in the region, with a strong possibility of nuclear involvement, in the middle of a major Decepticon incursion. Not a good idea there, one might think.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.TransformersRevengeOfTheFallen