Headscratchers: Batman: Arkham Origins
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- What exactly does Alfred temporarily die of? He gets back to work immediately afterwards without issue, so what was the problem?
- He was likely thrown from a great height and buried in rubble. His refusal to rest until Bruce is done is likely a case of Determinator and British Stuffiness.
- It's more likely cardiac arrest. If Alfred had died from injuries of that nature, the Magical Defibrillator wouldn't have worked. So the fall and rubble banged him up a bit, but he was actually dying from a heart attack.
- Bats isn't always in the Cave, for all we know, Alfred may just be doing his best to make sure he doesn't distract Bruce from keeping himself alive and getting the job done.
- I don't understand the question. Bane mortally wounded him to make Batman angry. What more do you need to know?
- A mortal wound wouldn't have been healed via electricity.
- Ah. Well, Bane intended for Alfred to remain alive long enough to say goodbye to Bruce. So he probably did something with the specific intent of heart failure. (Bane's smart. He'd know how to do that)
- "Did something"? Alfred was at the bottom of a pit, buried in rubble. Heart failure isn't generally the cause of death from being dropped from great height and then crushed under heavy objects; if Bane had been deliberately trying to stop Alfred's heart, the situation would have looked a lot different. If Bane wanted to kill Alfred, Alfred would be dead. Bane could have broken him in half and there wouldn't be a single thing Alfred could do to stop him. Bruce would have come home to the mangled body of his butler laid out on the wreckage of the Batcomputer, or some such. Similarly, a fall from the height at which Batman found Alfred onto the hard rocks that Alfred was laying on would have been lethal for an old man like Alfred, so it's unlikely that Alfred actually plummeted that distance. Most probable scenario is that Alfred did his best to hide from Bane, as even for an old man like Alfred, that wouldn't be too hard, as the Batcave is huge and Bane was aloneHEY! . However, during the destruction of the Batcave and presumably Wayne Manor above, a piece of the ceiling structure collapsed on top of Alfred. He went into cardiac arrest as a result of the combined terror of these events now coupled with the shock and injury adding onto the already highly agitated emotional state that he's been in since his bitter argument with Bruce just before.
- Why does Batman's suit in the cinematic trailer look more modern/high tech compared to the other two games, even though it's a prequel?
- Visually it does, but keep in mind the AA/AC suit could still block bullets but was skin tight, it was interwoven Kevlar/carbon nano-tube mesh, and is much more effective than just straight armor like in Arkham Origins.
- In one interview, the designers said that the Batsuit looking tougher and more armored is on purpose—this is a younger Batman who's more cocky and more willing to just wade right into fights against armed opponents, so he's more armored up because he's more likely to take hits. Older Bruce is more patient and careful, and reduced the amount of bulky armor to make himself more agile and stealthy.
- How does it even look more high tech? The suit in the other Arkham games looks like skin-tight bulletproof fabric with subtle Tron Lines, while the one in this game looks like simpler, heavier armor.
- I get how the future batsuit is actually more advanced and designed for a more experienced Batman. But what I don't get is when and why he decided 1. that a leather cowl is better than a metal one (the weight there shouldn't be too different, but he gets better protection with the metal one) and 2. that he ought to wear his underwear on the outside.
- 1. Its not leather, its an armor material similar to the rest of his costume, and 2. Superman
- 1. In AC, it stretches. It has to be latex or something, not armor like he is wearing in the rest of his body. 2. What does superman have to do with anything?
- 1. Highly advanced futuristic armor. 2. In that he took inspiration from Superman's costume
- Actually, a certain level of elasticity would make better armor than metal, with the right materials. The same way a kevlar vest is more likely to stop a bullet than a suit of medieval plate armor, if the tensile strength is high enough, the cowl will absorb the impact rather than resisting it.
- This was pretty much what he did in the Dark Knight Trilogy, switching from the solid armor like Batsuit (which was just a prototype infantry suit he took from Wayne Enterprises failed prototype area and repainted) to a custom made smaller suit of many individual armor pieces seperated to give him greater mobility due to having no armor on the joints at the cost of lower over all protection because of the lower armor density. It was mostly just preference. After operating as Batman for awhile he decided he liked easier movement over protection.
- There is armor in the experimental phase in real life that justifies this. Basically, you take a non-Newtonian shear thickening fluid which reacts to sudden changes in temperature (from the friction and kinetic energy of an impact) by thickening to the point of being solid. Mix it with a binding agent and dip a few layers of and aramid material, like kevlar or nomex, into it so that it's completely coated. When hit with a lot of force, say from a bullet, it reacts by hardening into a solid, cracking to absorb the force, then reverting to a semi-liquid state to cover the impact site again. Supposedly it can protect against stabbing, gunshots and blunt impacts. Although it'd be ultimately less durable than hard armor (as evidenced by all the tears and holes it accumulates in the other two games) combined with the above-mentioned carbon-nanotube mesh and upgrades like insert plates and shock-absorbing gel it would still be a formidable suit of armor while remaining lightweight and flexible. Plus, being able to cover the entire body evenly, it would have the benefit of not having any glaring weak points to exploit a la TDKR. Assuming the cowl is made of the same material as the rest of his suit, it could still protect him as well as a solid helmet. As for the underwear... I dunno what to tell ya.
- Perhaps the underwear is made out of the same superfabric just layered more heavily so the even if the goons get a cheap shot at a very sensitive place it won't hurt as bad?
- Why was the Worst Nightmare suit removed, that was the one I was most looking forward to.
- Evidently, WBM couldn't get the skin to work properly.
- How is Anarky in this? The game takes place really early on for both Batman and Joker (his alleged father). He should be WAY too young.
- Who says Joker's his father in this?
- He believes Joker is his father. It's never been confirmed.
- He incorrectly believed it for a single issue in reference to a subplot within a critically unsuccessful comic book that was cancelled after only eight issues in 1999, which was 14 years ago. The matter was intended to be resolved at a future point, but wasn't simply because it was quietly dropped and never referenced again. With the timeline being rebooted in 2011 as a result of the New 52, the matter is now a non issue as it never happened. So as DC Comics has dropped it, the readers can as well.
- Well, I for one am not going to.
- In The Dark Knight Rises, how can Bane be Talia al Ghul's adoptive brother? The answer is the same as Anarky being in Arkham Origins: because it's an adaptation. They can pick and choose or change whatever continuity they want.
- Videogame adaptions don't do that quite as much. (Unless they're movie-based)
- Well, video game adaptions don't do that quite as much but obviously they still pick and choose parts they want, so Anarky doesn't have to be Joker's son just because the comics say so.
- When he first appeared in comics, Anarky was twelve. His age fluctuated from fourteen to sixteen ever since (so Wikipedia says, at least). I have no idea how old he is in Origins, but I believe he can't be much older than sixteen there, either. And Joker doesn't appear that young, his close-ups during his talk with Harleen Quinzel show deep wrinkles. It's not that implausible that he is Anarky's father.
Special Edition Map
- The special edition map. How the hell does Anarky know where the Batcave is!?
- It's a tie-in feely, not official canon information.
- How does Joker build an entire rollercoaster inside a hotel within only a few hours and without notice?
- The goons' union traded their breaks for a pinball machine. Seriously, though, I'm guessing they started construction even before the game began, built the tracks in cover and just moved them out when the time came.
- The Enigma tapes show that Joker's been doubling as Black Mask for at least three weeks, so he had the time.
- Escept the Hotel wasn't closed. It was fully functional, with staff AND guests until the very moment Joker took over the place, killing most of the staff, leaving the guests alive (As per one of his goons) and using a few more surviving staff as hostages. So Joker had to have done it in one night coz people would have noticed the giant ramshackle roller coaster built into the hotel long before.
- He hired the same magical carpenters and construction workers than the Riddler used to hide his trophies in Arkham Asylum and Arkham City in places that have either been unvisited for decades or are filled with people who'd want to kill Riddler.
- There is the 2x4 method, making the materials/components elsewhere then assembling them together. This is the Joker we're talking about, he's crazy enough to pull it off in a matter of hours, safety protocols gone to hell.
- Except the tracks aren't made from 2 x 4s. You see them. They'd require heavy machinery. The kind you don't find on the 30th floor of a hotel. Even if the Joker is screw safety - which I am sure he is - the simple logistics make it impossible.
- We're talking about "Black Mask" here. The biggest crime boss in Gotham at the time. The Joker could've easily forced the hotel staff and director into keeping their mouths shut and denying access to those floors during the three weeks he disguised himself as Sionis.
- Why was Bane so obsessed with Batman? It's more or less shown Batman is the only reason Bane is even working as an assassin in this game (Bruce is even shocked that Bane would be taking money for an assassination). But we never actually find out why.
- It probably ties into the character's canon history from the books/the Knightfall novelisation. Bane perpetually had nightmares about a giant bat that he was never able to conquer, despite his increased prominence and reputation in the Santa Priscan prison he was born into. When he learns about Gotham and Batman in particular, he thinks that breaking Batman will basically conquer that demon. So basically, Batman is, to him, a metaphor for the thing plaguing him. Break the Bat, become King of Gotham City. In that respect the money probably isn't that big a deal - that'd just be a perk.
- But the game doesn't establish that, just that Bane really has it in for Batman no apparent reason and that taking him down exceeds everything else, even taking TN-1 in desperation to win.
- Hence why I said probably. I haven't played the game yet, but it still fits. It's a different tack entirely than Bane's approach during Knightfall, which was to render Bruce physically and psychologically sluggish and cheat, but he would still do anything to take him down.
- There does seem to be an undisclosed vendetta Bane has against Batman. When they first meet, Bane says that "your death will bring me peace," which seems like a really weird thing for him to say without some sort of history with Batman, and would seem to play into the aforementioned canon characterization.
- Plus, one of the crime-scene side missions has one of Bane's Elite Mooks refer to Batman as "the shadow that haunted [Bane's] dreams", further supporting that Bane's motivation is similar to the comic-version.
Joker and Black Mask
- One of the Enigma tapes shows that Joker had been doubling as Black Mask for at least three weeks. But the scene at Sionis' penthouse only happened a few days before the game start (Otherwise, those bodies would be rather obviously decomposed). How did Joker pull that off the first two weeks with the real Black Mask still on the loose?
- It's winter. It's possible the cold kept the bodies from decomposing (Admittedly it'd be impressive for the temperatures to never rise above melting point between December 3rd and December 24th but not implausible). Of course then the question becomes why did the fire in Sionis' apartment only draw the cops to look in the rubble a full three weeks later. The call that alerts Batman to the crime scene implies the fire just happened.
- It's possible Joker at first only bothered with fringe operations of Sionis, places where the real Black Mask would be unlikely to visit personally, and using them to set things up. Then only as his plan was approaching game day did he actually take out Sionis and replace him.
- The three weeks earlier tape is about one of Black Mask's men (Unaware of the switch) questioning Joker!Black Mask's decision to not sending someone to deliver Commissioner Loeb's monthly bribe, which was apparently done on the 1st Thursday of the month. Do you think the real Sionis would forget about that if he was out and about? Or that he wouldn't notice the cops getting upset about not getting their regular payoff?
- Tiffany was concerned over Joker so this might've been something ongoing and Joker just did the major stuff the few days before the game.
- One idea could be that Joker had completely taken over Black Masks operations, but hadn't gotten hold of Sionis himself. Because the Joker needed Sionis to get into the Gotham Merchants bank vault he could've been using his Girlfriend as a way to find him, plus keeping her around keeps up appearances. When Tiffany finds out about The Joker he decides that she has to go, so pays her a visit. Sionis finds out about this, and has a decoy go in to stop the Joker while he goes around the back, since this is before the mask is permanently grafted onto his face, one can assume Sionis has spares in emergency caches that a 'paranoid' crime boss would have. So while the Joker is giving one of his famous comedy routines to the strung up Tiffany, the two men enter and the fight ensues, what Batman details happens and the Joker gets away with Sionis in tow.
- Alternately, the Joker had not completely taken over Black Mask's operations. He was operating as Black Mask during that time, while Black Mask himself was also operating as Black Mask. Sionis started hearing about strange orders he never gave and started investigating it, and the Joker realized he needed to get Sionis out of the way or else he'd be discovered, so he spooked Tiffany into running for a safehouse he'd become aware of during his own time as Black Mask, then set an ambush. Stringing up Tiffany is a tactical move; she's a decoy. When Black Mask walks in the front door, his eyes are going to be drawn to his girlfriend strung up in front of him. He's not going to be looking at the Joker, sitting in his chair, and that momentary distraction would cost him the reaction time needed to avoid getting shot. It was a good plan, nearly ruined by Sionis having a decoy of his own.
Penguin's Arms Dealing
- How can Penguin conceal his arms dealing when he's got rocket launchers and tanks on the deck of his ship? I don't care how dirty the cops in Gotham are, they can't cover up something that blatantly obvious.
- Penguin can just say that he's collecting them. Keep in mind in Arkham City he said that he was a collector.
- Alternatively he's just moved them on deck to free room for the fighting tournament he's holding tonight, figuring that with X Mas AND Loeb's death, the odds of cops coming looking are null.
- It is revealed that the boat itself is considered foreign land, so those laws don't applied while on the ship. When it leaves the ship is a different story.
Thugs on Rooftops
- Why are there so many thugs on rooftops in Gotham? Especially those who don't belong to a gang. Its Christmas eve, they can't ALL be homeless and family-less with no one to see on Christmas eve. And even if there were, they needed access to the roof of whatever building they live on, so why go outside the building on the roof instead of inside where it'd be dry and warm?
- Because 50,000,000 is an incredible amount of money for a seemingly easy task, killing the Batman and he is mostly seen moving across rooftops so it makes sense for them to wait on rooftops in hopes it being one the Batman traverses this night and claim the reward.
- If they are all there hoping to kill the Bat and get the reward, then why are many heard openly denying the Bat's existence. "I don't believe in Unicorns, but I guess I'll go on a rooftop on Christmas because it's where that thing I firmly don't believe in will turn up. Nothing better to do..." And some outright think he's got wings and flies "Imma gonna take out a flying target with my fists!" Furthermore, how do so many mooks know about the 50 million reward long enough in advance to formulate their roof-ambush-plan AND park themselves over almost every roof in town (And let alone so many thugs though they'd out do the 8 assassins hired for the job) yet Batman - the world's greatest detective - finds out at the last minute (And only because Killer Croc bragged about it) - so last minute that some of the assassins who aren't even local had time to travel from their country of origin to Gotham by the time he's learned about it. Or why they'd stay around on rooftops when the Joker's in jail, meaning no reward for them.
- Word of mouth. Batman's been active for 2 years by this point so while not all of them had direct contact with him this was probably around the time that to some he really did look like a giant bat creature. This also could have been at a time before Batman was taking on the smarter and far more dangerous super criminals and heads of criminal empires so he just used two bit half wit thugs for practice. The next thing he knows eight of the world's deadliest assassins are hunting him down so he had no other choice by then except lay down and die. But being Batman of course he wouldn't have that. And as for them knowing about the reward money? Penguin probably told his men since he was probably keeping tabs on Black Mask/Joker while the corrupt SWAT officers were affiliated with Black Mask/Joker anyway. The unaffiliated thugs probably have friends affiliated with the gangs that know about the reward money because they were told so by their bosses. The criminal underworld is pretty connected. As for what made them think that they would get the reward money and the eight assassins might not come after them if they do? 1. It's a LOT of money. Greed was a large factor here. 2. The thugs are not usually portrayed as the smartest characters in the block. 3. If Penguin's men ever at some point in the game talked about getting the award money that their opposition's leader was forking out for Batman's death. Maybe it was a free for all? Maybe they just saw big money and thought he would just hand it to them for a job well done? Or they really didn't consider who has the cash and who's paying for a job they're not supposed to do? Finally after the Joker was put in jail they didn't stick around for the reward money. They stuck around to take advantage of the blizzard and the aftermath of the total chaos that happened in the night. Raid a few stores or something like that.
Penguin Doesn't Believe Batman Exists?
- When we first hear the Penguin on Loose Lips' cellphone, Penguin's heard shouting about how Batman doesn't exist, that it's a fairytale his guys made up to steal his money... Yet Penguin's the 2nd biggest criminal empire in town after Sionis. And after two years of Batman operating in the city, he doesn't believe the bat exists?? Even after hearing how Black Mask just put a 50 Million bucks bounty on him? What's Batman been doing in those two years that has had such a low impact on Penguin for the later to not even believe the Bat exists? I mean, Batman's shown no hesitation at going straight to the head of a criminal cartel for the loosest of reasons (In this game he chases Penguin down just to ask him about assassins ANOTHER crime boss hired) so it seems surprising that in two years Batman's never before crossed path with Penguin, or somehow thwarted one of his operations, or in any way made his presence known. Black Mask is at least implied to have crossed path with Batman, but what, Batman never thought Penguin was also worth his time?
- No one thinks Batman exists at this point beyond people who have fought him first hand.
- Penguin didn't say he didn't believe in Batman's existence, he said he didn't believe that Batman would be taking the time to go after his operations given that Black Mask had put an 8 figure bounty on his head. Cobblepot basically thought that Batman would be going after Sionis that night and ignoring him. Unfortunately, Batman decided that the quickest way to find Sionis was to ask Cobblepot.
- How is Batman able to grapnel boost in Arkham Origins when it was stated that it was in the untested prototype stage in Arkham City?
- The grapnel boost in Arkham City was much better than Batman's original one? Without looking into more details, I'm not sure what to tell you.
- It's not quite the same thing, more an early version that was perhaps not considered strong enough. It's name is different, as it's referred to as the accelerator, it doesn't seem to boost you quite as far and the sound it makes is also a little duller, signifying that that's probably the intention. So it's more like the grapnel boost is simply an upgraded version of an old gadget.
Henry Cobblepot's Death
- Henry Cobblepot died a few months after Cyrus Pinkney, in a 'car accident', which Batman discovers to be a probable murder by Cyrus Pinkney. There's a problem with that statement - Pinkney died in 1855. Cars didn't exist back then. Shouldn't it have been a carriage accident?
- It's possible that technology of the Arkham verse evolved differently? I mean, Origins takes place over decade prior to Asylum or Arkham City yet Smartphones with touchscreens are found all over...
- Old Gotham is seen in Arkham City and it does look more advanced than a city of the 1850s. For one it has electric lighting all around and if I remember correctly, also features an electric Tram. Both of these would be 25 to 30 years ahead of their real life discovery, to say nothing of their widespread adoption. IRL Paris was the first city with Electric lights, and that was in 1875 (It's why it's nicknamed the city of lights). Wonder City also included automatons according to some posters.
- Alternatively they mean a railroad car. As these were the only type of "cars" to exist at the time, making the distinction would be pointless (And Alfred is reading from the reports of the period when he says "car" so he might not have thought to amend "railroad").
- Alfred's exact word was 'automobile'.
- I'm a bit confused by the history of Arkhamverse Gotham City. So if someone can help me clear it up.
- Gotham is founded at some unspecified point in time, by the 19th century it is a Wretched Hive.
- Cyrus Gold dies in Gotham Swamp during a storm, comes back as Solomon Grundy.
- Ra's Al Ghul strides into town. Finds Solomon Grundy and the Lazarus Pit. Experiments on both. Grundy's death and revival are recent enough that Ra's can figure out the role lightning plays in the Lazarus Pit's functioning. Buys the deed to Gotham itself with a ton of gold. Builds Wonder City and Wonder Tower. This is stated to take place about 200 years prior to Arkham City
- Cyrus Pinkney & Solomon Wayne begin building Gotham. We know this takes place before the downfall of Wonder City since Arkham Asylum is functional by the time Wonder City goes to shit, and Cyrus' logs have him promising to design Arkham in August 1852.
- Jan 11 1855 - Cyrus Pinkney is believed to be killed. No more constructions by him can thus occur in Gotham.
- Residents of Wonder City go insane due to repeat exposure to Ra's Lazarus experiments and a riot breaks out, many are rounded up in Arkham Asylum. Ra leaves Gotham behind. Wonder City is built over.
- So the problem's two fold. For one, both reconstructions of Gotham seem to occur at about the same time, yet Cyrus' partnerships never mention Ra's despite the fact that he sort of owned the entire city according to dossiers in Arkham City. Also, some of Cyrus' constructions (Like Jezebel Plaza) are literally built on top of Wonder City, suggesting they were built after the Wonder City fiasco and after Ra left. This gets weirder if one assumes any building hiding Cyrus' notes was built before his death (Which would make sense since he had to hide his journal there and the journal makes it clear he intended to do so before faking his death) since then it means the Monarch Theater was built over Ra's pit, and the museum over the lab he used to test on Grundy while Ra's was still there - over Wonder City...
- There's an Easter Egg in the Steel Mill where you can find files for assassins Black Mask ( well, Joker really) rejected: Black Spider, Cheshire and David Cain. Why would he reject them? It's not like the plan requires only eight assassins.
- Maybe he couldn't track them down in time? Didn't like their style (In regular DC Comics, Cain taught Bruce, so someone with fighting skills too similar to Batman might bor`e the Joker - or he might not want someone too similar to Lady Shiva in style, similarly he might find Cheshire's preference for poison fingernails redundant with Copperhead's)?
- While obviously just a mechanism to limit the size of the game while including references, one could also reasonably believe that the more world-famous assassins would need some upfront money. So every major assassin (so not Electrocutioner) would cost Black Mask money, regardless of if they win the hunt.
I'll kill you! No I won't!
- I was watching an LP and they accidentally cut off the explantion; why did the Joker say he wanted Bats alive and then change his mind seconds later?
- ...At what point?
- Right here. At around 12:53, it looks like he starts to explain, then the player triggers the next PA soundbyte.
- IIRC, He's referring to three hours ago. Before Batman saved his life at the Royale Hotel and Joker got his newfound obsession with the bat (Before that point Batman was just an obstacle). He's telling his men that earlier this night he wanted Batman dead by whoever (Hence hiring assassins) but now his perspective's changed.
- But he says seconds later to kill the Batman, when he's making his "introductions" in the room Harley's in.
- He's the Joker? He's not known to be stable for one. He knows those guys aren't gonna kill Batman. He can order them to do whatever.
Bane's fluctuating size
- Since The Joker and Bane's war for Blackgate Prison couldn't have taken place during or before story mode, how is Bane at his pre-TN-1 size during multiplayer? His appearance in the later games implies that he can't shrink back down to his normal height. I realize that TN-1 Bane would probably make things too easy for his team, but still.
- Multiplayer is outside of continuity, just like the Challenge mode (Why would Deathstroke be training in the Batcave, or why would Batman bring thugs to the cave to beat on). It's also why the alternate costumes are available in Multiplayer.
- How would Anarky go about getting access to those bombs? This version of him basically seems to be an ideologically-minded teenager with leadership skills, not really the kind of person who would have money or connections.
- Anarky does have a lot of followers who might've gotten the bombs for him. If not that then perhaps he made the bombs himself?
- Said followers could've stolen it from the kind of villains that'd be more likely to have that kind of thing, like Black Mask or Penguin. A huge risk, but they seem devoted enough to try.
- High-grade explosives are surprisingly easy to make, and Anarky's followers consist of a lot of disgruntled commonfolk with a grudge against major institutions. There are probably plenty of people in his crew that can build those bombs in their garage.
Apprehending the Joker
- When Batman defeats the Joker again (without killing him) in the Blackgate Prison Chapel, Gordon shows up and says, "Any one of my guys would have killed him" in a tone that suggests he disapproves of that method. Of course, the cops don't want to kill people if they can avoid it, but this is the Joker. It makes sense that Batman shouldn't have the authority to kill him, since he's a vigilante. But the cops have the authority to shoot someone who's blowing up towers and impersonating other people and threatening to kill the mayor and crap. I know Gordon doesn't like killing either, but I don't get why he would say this, like Batman's better than the cops for not shooting a relentless murderer.
- I'd say Gordon believes Joker deserves whatever's coming to him, but the point of that line is his admiration for Batman's restraint, given that he started the night believing Batman to be a murderous vigilante.
- You also have to remember that GPD isn't your average police force; you're either a dirty cop or a rookie. The cops would also have killed Joker out of revenge instead of trying to bring him in. The Joker may be considered armed and dangerous, but that doesn't give them authority to gun him down if he's not immediately attacking them.
- The fact that the outlines of Thomas and Martha Wayne are present in this game too josses the theory that Strange redrew them to mess with Batman. So...how are they there?
- Maybe it's paint.
- Maybe it's not physically there, but that's just how Batman sees it.
- Or it could just be an oversight and the developers accidentally left it there.
- The Waynes were rich, respected philanthropists in Gotham. You know when people are killed in car accidents, people make memorials on the side of the road where it happened? I think that's what happened here. The city painted the chalk outlines using paint that would last, and basically set up the site as a memorial to them. I imagine that it's periodically repainted as well (at least until Arkham City when the area is abandoned).
No-Kill Rule Given The Environment
- Batman refuses to kill people. That's a given. But given that there's a severe winter storm that's pretty much shut down the entire city, how is beating the snot out of people and leaving their unconscious bodies (Sometimes with broken bones) lying around outside where they can potentially freeze to death any better?
- The game would really suck if you had to carry each unconscious thug to safety first. In-universe, maybe Batman drops a tip on the police scanner. Or he doesn't knock everyone out - just beats them hard enough that they're no longer a threat, but not so hard that they can't crawl to safety.
- Why did Bane just randomly ditch his mask in the Blackgate battle? He wore it the entire way there, even when he wrecked the Batcave. What was the point of having him unmasked for the end?
- Maybe he wanted Batman to see the face of the man who was going to break him. Y'know, the usual Large Ham behavior.
Random Sniper Rifle on Bridge
- When you're on the main upper level post of the Pioneer Bridge, on the western side, there's a random sniper rifle lying on the ground in a case. Sure, the game is all about random details, but it seems so specific. Was it supposed to be a reference to Deadshot, even though he was in a completely different area of the map?
- It is possibly a reference to the cinematic trailer where Deadshot fires from Gotham Pioneers bridge at Batman and Deathstroke.
- Ah, thank you! I hadn't seen the trailer before - just watched it, you're right.
Joker and Harley's First Session
- In this game, we're shown it happens on Christmas Eve/morning at Blackgate Penitentiary. Didn't 'Batman: Arkham Asylum establish it was in Arkham Asylum, on March 3rd?
- Is this part of his Multiple-Choice Past?
- In all likelyhood, this is just a simple retcon. The Arkham Asylum team didn't anticipate making sequels with their own continuity. This leads to certain errors, such as Arkham Asylum's files claiming that Batman had fought Hugo Strange when Arkham City made it clear that they hadn't.
- This session was at Blackgate Penitentiary. It's likely that March 3rd was their first session at Arkham Asylum. It makes sense to this troper that they would have different files, so both places could have a "Session #1".
- My theory on this is that the tapes and files in Arkham Asylum are outside the continuity. The tapes and files are actually just bonuses for the player, and give backgrounds on the villians from the comics. I think they just figured that a lot of people would play this who weren't intimately familiar with the comics, and they used this as a way to describe all the characters. Notice the artwork for those also doesn't even remotely resemble the characters in-game.
Arkham Origins kinda f***s with the timeline, I need stuff cleared up.
Okay, here's what Asylum / City has established
- Barbra is in a wheelchair and a paraplegic, so that means the events of Killing Joke (more or less) happened at some point
- Tim is the current Robin, Dick is Nightwing, and Jason is dead (which means that Death in the Family more or less happened, Damian either doesn't exist or Bruce hasn't met him yet, but him and Talia have banged.
- Bane is implied to have broken Bruce's back, but he's also never met any of the Azraels, so that means Knightfall has happened, but apparently Dick took over as Batman for the time being
- Bruce has met at least Bane, Two-Face, Scarecrow, The Joker, Harley Quinn, The Penguin, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Firefly, Deadshot, Deathstroke, at least one of the Copperheads, Ra's and Talia Al Ghul, Killer Croc, Lady Shiva, Mad Hatter, Victor Zsasz, Mr. Freeze, Black Mask, Anarky, Calendar Man and The Riddler before the events of Asylum
- He hasn't met Hush, Jason as Red Hood, or any Azrael
Here's what Origins has established
- It's 5 years before the events of Asylum, and he's been Batman for 2 years.
- He's mostly been fighting the mob, Black Mask, The Penguin, and Calendar Man before the events of the game it's implied he's met Bane. He hasn't met almost everyone else yet
- Harvey Dent is nowhere to be seen
- There hasn't been a Robin yet
- During the game he meets the Joker, Firefly, Lady Shiva, Deathstroke, Deadshot, a Copperhead, and Killer Croc for the first time
Now my questions:
- How does all this stuff that has to happen between Origins and Asylum only happen in 5 years? How could Bruce possibly meet basically his whole rogues gallery, go through three Robins, have Barbara get paralyzed, gain the full trust of the city and police, get his back broken and recover from it, and get a new suit all in five years?
- How did any Nightfall even happen at all when Bane is reduced to a blabbering idiot with memory loss by the end of Origins?
- Where's Harvey? Isn't he supposed to be the DA and an ally of Batman at around this time?
- Why does it look like Gordon has aged like..........15 years between Origins and Asylum?
- Rough job; daughter paralyzed by biggest psychopath in the world... it's rough on a man
That's all I can think of for now, probably be back with more later.
- 1) Comic-Book Time is a cruel mistress. 2) While the first game was almost identical to the comics, the Arkham series has evolved since then and now clearly takes place in an alternate continuity. Meaning that Knightfall never happened and Harvey Dent is not obligated to be Batman's friend at this point. It's best to regard the comics as a guideline then an iron-clad rule. And 3) Gordon is police commissioner for Gotham "it's a mystery why nobody left a long time ago to get away from all the muderous crazies" City. Chalk the aging up to stress.
- From what ive seen, its NEVER established that theres a 5 year gap, only that its been 2 years since he started.
- Well, here's the way I see it (subdivided for ease of reading):
- Given that he fought off a dozen supervillains over the course of one night, Batman could easily face his entire rogues gallery multiple times over a five year period, even without team-up events. The constant crime-fighting, along with Gordon's support and influence, would be a good way to bolster support for him with the police - even during the game, any cops you save are happy to look the other way rather than trying to arrest you.
- The only sidekicks that are confirmed seem to be Babs (who's already on his side as of this game), Dick (who will be losing his parents soon, judging by the posters around town) and Tim (who is active during Arkham City). We don't know how long Tim has been around when he shows up in Arkham City, but since Batgirl and Robin are often shown as active at the same time, having three sidekicks over five years is far from impossible. There's no evidence that Jason even existed aside from a throw-away line in an Arkham City Challenge map, which could just as easily be a Noodle Incident between the Joker and Tim, and neither Cass nor Stephanie have ever been so much as referenced.
- As for The Killing Joke and Knightfall, there's no reason they have to have happened the same in the Arkhamverse as they did in the comics. Adaptations that draw from big events like these always change the details to fit the verse - just look at literally EVERY adaptation of a comic story in existence. Granted, I'm not clear on what details have been established, but having the Joker cripple Barbara and Bane at some point breaking Batman's back both seem to slot very easily into a five-year period.
- Where is it ever claimed that Origins takes place only 5 years before Asylum? It seems to me more likely that it's 15 or 20 years, maybe even 25. In Asylum Batman is fully mature and at the peak of his career, which speaks to me of a man in his 40s (who has kept himself in exceptional shape, obviously). Origins is Batman just starting out at the age of 22-25 or so. Plenty of room between the two for all of Batman's legendary adventures to take place.
- Every official thing said it was set 5 years before do a Google search and all press releases confirmed the game was set 5 years before Arkham Asylum. Even without that confirmation there's no way it's even 15 years let alone 20-25. A man's peak isn't in his late 30s or 40s. Bruce appears to be early to mid 20s so 21-25. That puts mid to late 20s or early 30s in Arkham Asylum in Arkham City. Couple that with Alfred he's mid 60s that would put him in his 40s when Bruce was child. We hear his voice in Arkham City I don't think he would still be working in his 80s
- The "official" things you're talking about were said when the game was still in development, and things can change. It's possible they originally intended it to be 5 years earlier, but then realized that they would need a bigger gap than that. It's more likely that it's a 10-15 year gap. In Origins, Bruce is 22-25, and I'd say Alfred is in his late 40's/early 50's max. In Asylum, Bruce is anywhere from 32-37, making Alfred late 50's/early 60's max. A 10 year gap would make Oracle 25 during Arkham Asylum, a 15 year gap would make her 30. Look at the difference in Gordon between Origins and Asylum. Seriously, it's more than 5 years.
- The only limiting feature of the distance between Origins and City seems to be Harley's pregnancy at the end of the latter. She could not be younger than 26 in Origins (having graduated medical school). While she could have maintained that figure into her mid-thirties, the biological clock means that she couldn't reasonably be 40.
- If it has been longer than 5 years, I can think of a reasonable Handwave as to why everyone is still in their peak: The Lazarus Pit under Gotham. This theory is mentioned in the Fridge section of Arkham City, and it seems plausible; the fumes from the Lazarus Pit cause people to go insane and are implied to be the reason that Gotham is such a crime ridden hellhole. It's possible the fumes are also providing low levels of regenerative effects to everyone in Gotham as well, not enough to slow all signs of aging, but enough to keep everyone near the peak of their fitness as well, if they work out enough. Besides, Barbara is 15 in Origins and is implied to be in her late twenties by Arkham City, so a decade isn't too bad of a timeframe.
- Not that anyone cares at this point, but I think I may have an answer.
- 1. Word of God has said that Origins takes place 5 years before Asylum, City takes place 18 months after Asylum and Knight takes place a year after City. Seeing that there is nothing in Origins' story that hints at that (It's not like Batman goes to a fortune teller to get his palm read and she tells him "Five years from now, the Joker will trap you inside of Arkham Asylum) the devs could easily Retcon it if they had to.
- 2. I have done some calculations and determined that Arkham Origins must take place exactly eight years before Arkham Asylum in order for the story to work. Batman was 25 in Batman: Year One so he's 26 in Origins, which takes place during Year Two, which would make him 34 in Asylum, 36 in City and 37 in Knight.
- 3. Since I'm certain that WB Montreal will fill in the gap between Origins and Asylum, I've (attempted to) come up with a timeline and what they could/should do with them.
- He meets and adopts Dick Grayson in Year Three. The circus comes to Gotham shortly after Blackgate (assuming it's canon) and that whole charade happens. Bruce adopts him and he becomes Robin at age 12.
- Year Five: The setting of Montreal's second title, which I've codenamed Arkham Unleashed. Harleen Quinzel, unable to find any decent jobs, transfers to Arkham Asylum to continue being Joker's shrink, becoming Harley Quinn. Harvey Dent has become Two-Face (He was always Batman's ally before that, it just wasn't stressed in-game) and is the game's main villain, Barbara Gordon becomes Batgirl, Enigma becomes Riddler and Penguin gets the bottle shoved in his face. First appearance (canon wise) of Aaron Cash, Dr. Young, Poison Ivy, Victor Zsasz, Scarecrow, Clayface, (actual; assuming they're not in Knight) Great White Shark, Man-Bat, and Killer Moth. Sounds like a lot but the series is really good at handling Loads and Loads of Characters.
- Year Six Batman gets his back broken by a returning Bane. Since Jean-Paul Valley apparently does not exist in this universe (the Azrael in City was Michael Lane) this event slightly differs from Knightfall.
- Year Seven: Setting of the Unleashed story add-on pack which deals with Dick becoming Nightwing, Batman meeting Jason Todd for the first time and dealing with Deathstroke and Copperhead who managed to escape the Suicide Squad, setting up the events of Assault on Arkham, which happens shortly after.
- Year Eight: Barbara Gordon is crippled by Joker and becomes Oracle. Jason Todd is only Robin for about nine months before being killed.
- Year Nine: The setting of Montreal's third and final Arkham game, which I've codenamed Arkham Revelations. Focuses on Batman's first encounter with the League of Assassins (which I believe deserve their own game.) Jason Todd has been resurected via Lazarus Pit and is brainwashed by Ra's into becoming Red Hood to test Batman. Cassandra Cain becomes Batgirl with her old man, David placing a bounty on her and Shiva (whom has since defected from the League). Tim Drake pulls a Batman Gambit that allows him to become the third Robin and Cassandra becomes the second Batgirl.
- Year Ten: The events of Arkham Asylum.
- Year Twelve: The events of Arkham City.
- Year Thirteen: The events of Arkham Knight.
- Understandable since in real life most thugs and low ranking subordinates for big time crime bosses are male but aren't activists and anarchists gender balanced? Also, Anarky's profile states that he inspired mostly the young and disillusioned but all of his goons sound and look around the rest of the mooks age which is two decades older than him.
- WB Montreal were probably worried that seeing Batman beat up teenagers, women, and teenage women would spark controversy and earn them bad press. (Shiva's lady assassins are a different case because they are clearly trained professionals who present a serious challenge to Batman, rather than a bunch of teenage goons with knives and baseball bats.)
Crime Alley Couple
- The couple killed in Crime Alley were young newlywed friends of Bruce Wayne. Symbolism aside, wasn't all of Gotham closed due to the blizzard? So why would this couple be out and about in the first place?
- Maybe the fact that they were breaking a curfew and disobeying the system was exciting for them? (If you get what I mean.)
- Maybe the killer, a known friend/acquaintance himself might have lured them towards Crime alley. As it's a nice secluded spot for a murder. Also, since everyone knows how Bruxe Wayne parents died, especially those who know him and with the press he attracts. Maybe the killer was taking a little but of petty revenge with that as well after being kicked out of the Wayne manor party. Though I doubt that that guy thought that far ahead.
Take him to Blackgate
- Why does Gordon order that the Joker be taken to Blackgate (as opposed to, say, one of the two police stations in town). The Joker has not been sentenced to a term in a maximum security prison, and Blackgate is heavily damaged from the riot at the beginning of the game.
- Maybe Blackgate has a more secure unit for more serious offends that are awaiting trail but haven't been sentenced yet. In comic arc Bruce Wayne Murderer? Bruce and Sasha await there trial inside Blackgate so there is precedence for it.
- The GCPD already suffered a prison break, thanks to the corrupt cops wanting to make Gordon look bad, earlier in the story. There was already considerable damage there, to say nothing of the bombs planted under the foundation by Joker's men. On paper, Blackgate probably was the best option.
No Female Option In Multiplayer
- Why are there no female options in multiplayer? They could have easily given alternative skins for Batgirl or Robin IV or VI (Stephanie Brown and Carrie Kelley, the female Robins). But aside from that why isn't there a female gang member option. You can customize your gang member's body type, face, outfit, etc, but you there isn't even one simple female model. That's just disrespectful for the women players such as myself, and in general rude to all players, including males, who may want to play as a female.
- Because aside from Harley, we've never never seen a female gangmember in Joker's crew, and Bane's men are all trained mercenaries which makes female members even less unlikely.
- An out of character character explanation is that they're they're working with a pre-assigned budget when it comes to animation and so on. While female skins do exist within the game notice how they have very specific animations in combat (sword use, lots of kicks, etc). The vast majority of work would have already gone into the motion capture for male models (a great deal of which has been carried over from the previous two games after all), making the extra clothing options fairly negligible in terms of the effort needed. Unless you're an independent developer there's not an awful lot of freedom as to what you can spend your money and time on, so lumping a bunch of men together in the multiplayer is more to do with that than anyone in the group wanting to disrespect women.
- In addition, the reason there is no female character for single player is at least partly due to the timeline. Barbara isn't Batgirl at this point (she only met Batman during the events of the game, and started to slip into her Oracle role as opposed to a more active one), and neither Cass nor Stephanie are around at this point (and have never been mentioned in the Arkham series, for that matter). Catwoman doesn't show up until Arkham Orgins: Blackgate, and she's a villain to boot; Harley is still an intern (although I can see a paperwork-based challenge map... maybe there's some DLC coming for that); Talia's most likely not in the country; Shiva is the only real option for a playable female, but she doesn't have any gadgets, which would change the playstyle too much to be worth it for Challenge Maps.
Bane Acting Alone
- When Bane attacked the Manor, did he invade and blow it up completly alone? Because a job the size of that, you'd need at least a few guys, plus it would make little sense for Bane to keep Batman being Bruce Wayne a secret as it was already displayed on monitor screens in his base. So while he lost his memory, there should have been at least a few others in his organisation who knew the secret and could have told him afterwards unless there's some bit that happens afterwards where they are all killed before they could pass the information.
- A little wild mass guessing: Alfred had a CMOA and killed all of them but Bane. He does have a tendency to use a shotgun any time the Manor or cave is threatened, and many versions of him are ex-SIS or military.
- Why exactly can't Bane be acting alone during his attack on Wayne Manor? He'd be strong enough to do it alone, and could bring the necessary equipment to invade the Batcave himself. Besides I seriously doubt Alfred could actually be able to fight off Bane on his own, and given the news about Firefly attacking the bridge, he would know where Batman would be. Alternatively, Bane's men helped him ransack Wayne Manor, but he attacked the Batcave alone and his men didn't know that Bruce Wayne is Batman because while their is little reason to not tell them that, their also isn't much of a reason to tell them either. Or I could just echo what the above troper is saying and guess that Alfred killed everyone except Bane.
All part of the plan
- What does Ra's al Ghul have to gain in the re-opening of Arkham? And why did he have Shiva tell Bane about TN-1? How does this all factor in?
- Perhaps reopening the asylum was a precursor to what would become Arkham City. Ra's once considered Bane as his successor in the comics, and helped Strange with his plans, so he might've been helping Bane while evaluating potential successors.
Copperhead crazier than we thought?
- Why did Copperhead kill the Joker goon in the elevator at the Sionis Steel Mill? She knows about the Joker (saying as much herself within minutes of this), but is still willing to work for him for the bounty. So why did she poison one of his goons? For laughs? Alternatively, was the killer something else entirely (i.e. Scarecrow)? That whole thing really didn't make any sense to me.
- Judging by the facial expression of the dead goon, I assumed he had displeased the Joker in some way and was given a shot of Joker Toxin. This would go along with the Joker's men having just taken over the chemical plant. I could be wrong.
- So I'm just gonna have to be the one to say it? Fine. How does Bruce still have Detective Vision in the Initiation DLC? I get why (Anti-Frustration Features) I'm asking how.
- Bruce's "detective vision" is called "Concentration". Presumably it's some sort of ninja enhanced sensory technique or, like you said, just Anti-Frustration Features.
- So what was with Boyle's utter jerkiness in dealing with Fries? He clearly knows how to play the PR game, so he would know how much money and publicity he'd get for curing a terminal disease, especially if he could claim he did on behalf of the family of one of his top employees. For that matter, if he'd just told Fries that his freezing Nora with GothCorp resources meant that the company owned the freezing process, rather than the frozen subject, Victor wouldn't have cared. He wasn't motivated by the money that could come from any prospective patents. He just wanted his wife back.
- Taking Nora was actually necessary. It's suggested during the boss fight that they've been running tests on her the entire time, and that it was their way of studying the procedure (to see exactly what effects it has on the patient besides preserving them, for instance, as you can't market something without noting possible drawbacks). This is something Victor did not approve of, so they needed him out of the way to get at Nora. As for why Ferris didn't just honor the bargain in the first place, he got greedy. The cryonics discovery was more valuable than the cure to Huntington's disease (as it's applicable to all disease, old age, wanting to see the future when you have nothing in the present to live for, etc.), and researching Huntington's would have taken a lot of time and money on his end. If he could trick Victor into making weapons while secretly stealing the cryonic process, then he would have two new sources of revenue that were basically done for free.
- Given that Hill's political career had somehow survived (And actually progressed after) being found in a hotel room with two dead strippers, what did Enigma have on the man to bring him down?
- Knowing Gotham, something really horrible.
- And Enigma had nothing to do with this: everything related to the subject implies the Joker impersonating Black Mask and killing Loeb, plus Branden's actions, are what exposed everything.
- I couldn't really think of where to put this, but I figured it was most relevant in Origins. So Rocksteady has declared that Arkham Knight will be the final game in the series. I can understand that, after six or seven years working on the same series, I'd want to move on as well. Are there going to be any other Arkham games based on the events after Origins? Are they going to sell the rights to the franchise?
- I'm almost certain that WB Montreal will make sequels to Arkham Origins. They (arguably) put too much work into this game to leave us hanging and fan outcry might scar their reputation, so once Arkham Knight comes out, Montreal can continue where Origins left off and will have more time and more freedom (since they don't have to worry about upstaging Rocksteady) to make a proper Arkham game (not that I didliked Origins or anything)