Discussion YMMV / SailorMoon

I'm sorry, but have you actually looked into fanbase opinion outside your own? Are you sure that maybe you're the only one here that likes Sailor Stars so much, regardless of other opinions? How do you know that your "Super S was the ONLY bad season!" opinion is universally shared?

For just one example of the differing opinion in play from someone other than me, here's a quote from a guy called Maetch. I don't always agree with him (ease up on Minako, her Flanderization wasn't her fault!), but I think his view on Stars is dead-on.

Basically, after they went too kiddy in Super S, they tried to make it serious again like in S... and failed.

The manga Stars had Galaxia as a fierce adversary who didn't necessarily need Chaos to be a menace to the galaxy. The anime instead turns her into another goody-goody in need of purification. The MacGuffin-based plots once more get used ad nauseum, the Outers are even more of plot devices than they were to begin with (because the anime is only allowed to focus on the Usagi Five and no one else), and the Starlights... well, they're supposed to be cross-dressers, not gender-benders like Ranma.

Also, you do realize that Naoko Takeuchi says "the fifth season", she's talking about the manga arc, not the anime? She flat-out talks of "drawing the fifth season", and she's termed other manga arcs as "seasons" before. In regards to the anime, I think her dissapointment is pretty obvious, especially seeing as she feels so strongly about it's manga arc counterpart.

Produce evidence that they are hated? Here:

http://www.kinmoku.net/pops/harmony/necessary.php

This is actually a Starlight fansite, with the page being a defense for them and starting off noting how many Sailor Moon sites bash the Starlights, even listing the reasonings. Whether you agree with it or not, the fact that there is a widespread backlash against the Starlights should not be denied. Many see them as unnecessary Outer Senshi knockoffs.

All in all, you accuse me of Opinion Myopia biased against Stars. Maybe that's true, but I feel you have just as much of an Opinion Myopia biased toward Stars yourself. Let's both agree to just try to keep things neutral on the wiki. I'll keep reasons why I think it sucks off the Seasonal Rot entry if you keep off reasons as to how good it was or how much improved over Super S it was.

"I'm sorry, but have you actually looked into fanbase opinion outside your own? Are you sure that maybe you're the only one here that likes Sailor Stars so much, regardless of other opinions? How do you know that your "Super S was the ONLY bad season!" opinion is universally shared?"

Because I noticed someone on the site already called you out on this topic before I stepped in here to clean out the anti-Stars bias the page had. I have taken no horse in this race and I tried to quote other people's opinions on Stars. So, we are not going to be using TV Tropes to speak for a single person's opinion. Accusing someone trying to add balance to the page of Opinion Myopia is rather laughable.

Anyway, you quoted ONE WHOLE GUY on Sailor Moon Forum. So, if I write a pro-Stars post on SMF, I get to be right too? If I post one of hte really negative reviews of the Stars manga, does that mean I get to put the last arc of the manga in for Seasonal Rot as well? Because I always thought that arc was rushed, crammed way too full of new one-shot characters, and blew all the story potential from the Dead Moon Arc by killing off the main cast right out the gate and then going to space to throw down more unexplained plot points (like Sailor Cosmos) without a proper conclusion. And the Starlights contribute little to the manga's plot at all, really, hence why they just get killed out of nowhere (and so does Kakyuu). At least the anime did something with them. Oh yea, and Galaxia was a sympathetic pawn of Chaos there too, she just hit Redemption Equals Death unlike the anime.

You're also still taking Takeuchi way, way out of context to try and make her fit your agenda, when she simply said she wanted to see certain things in the anime. I've been trying to give you context for these comments and you keep stripping them back down to what you need for your arguments to work.

By the way, I used to know the gal at Starlight Pops. She was writing specifically due to the fact that character-bashing in the community was pretty rampant at the time and pretty much any character had this problem. "Anti-Shrines" were really popular back in the day.

Not sure what we're still debating, since all on the YMMV page seems fine now, but.....

Accusing someone trying to add balance to the page of Opinion Myopia is rather laughable.

I never accused anyone of doing anything to the page of Opinion Myopia. The page of Opinion Myopia wasn't even a part of this conversation, just the subject of Opinion Myopia.

Anyway, you quoted ONE WHOLE GUY on Sailor Moon Forum.

Yeah, because you only said "produce evidence that Stars is hated by other people than you". Maetch is not me and hates Stars, therefore he qualifies as evidence to produce. If you actually wanted me to link to a dozen different links and quote a dozen different people, you should have been more specific about it.

So, if I write a pro-Stars post on SMF, I get to be right too?

Sure, if that's your opinion. It doesn't change the fact that Stars, which had very weak ratings throughout it's run in Japan, is widely considered by others to be a case of Seasonal Rot.

Consider this: there are probably plenty of people who LIKE Super S (I don't, but there are plenty who do). Because they like it, should it get removed from Seasonal Rot, or have justifications for it despite it's Rot status among other people?

Because I always thought that arc was rushed

It was no more or less rushed than any other arc, Takeuchi only had a years' time to do these things you know, as part of the special co-running manga/anime contract. I find less of an easy explanation as to why the Stars anime was so much shorter than the other seasons before it.

At least the anime did something with them.

Yeah, something that was a DIRECT rip-off of the much better done Outer Senshi conflict (arrogant new Senshi appear and the main Senshi clash with them over methods, while not knowing each other's true identities and interacting well while in their true identities), while also pissing on Mamoru and his relationship with Usagi even more by having Seiya replace him as Usagi's love interest.

Oh yea, and Galaxia was a sympathetic pawn of Chaos there too, she just hit Redemption Equals Death unlike the anime.

Except Galaxia in the anime was NOT a sympatheitc pawn of Chaos, she was a blameless martyr who was purely good and heroic, and was only evil because Chaos was possessing her. In the manga, Galaxia deliberately committed her evil actions, all of her own will, manipulated by Chaos but not controlled by it.

I've been trying to give you context for these comments and you keep stripping them back down to what you need for your arguments to work.

Er, NO. You know no more about what Takeuchi thinks or feels any more than I do, all you can do is interpret in what context she's making these comments, just like I'm doing. You may interpret it as her not giving a damn, that's fine. I interpret it as being dissapointed.

And you dismissed the translator at Comicon as "terrible" and Takeuchi's annoyed reaction at the anime's alteration of the Starlights as "quickly" despite the fact that the summary said she took the time to state that the change really bothered her yet was beyond her control. Don't you think that's a case of "trying to make something fit for your agenda?"

By the way, I used to know the gal at Starlight Pops. She was writing specifically due to the fact that character-bashing in the community was pretty rampant at the time and pretty much any character had this problem. "Anti-Shrines" were really popular back in the day.

But she's specifically saying (and I quote) "so many fans dislike the Sailor Starlights", and even gives the three big "undestandable" reasons why. This isn't just a case of "any character", it's a case of the Starlights.