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DaibhidC Wizzard Since: Jan, 2001
Wizzard
Mar 3rd 2024 at 9:40:31 AM •••

This is probably a contentious question, and I'm kind of out of my wheelhouse as a white guy even asking it (which is kind of my point) but I can't help wondering if maybe Afrofuturist works need to have Black creators? Or it at least helps when defining them?

Like, looking at the comics section, I'm a big fan of Jack Kirby in general, but I'd say that Black Panther became Afrofuturist; I'm not sure his "wouldn't it be weird if the tribesmen in mud huts that I associate with Africa were just a cover for a secret high-tech society?" version qualifies. And I suspect Paul Cornell would be embarassed by any suggestion that his attempt at mitigating the Africa Is a Country stereotypes of earlier appearances by the Pan-African Judges qualifies him as an Afrofuturist writer.

I'm also not clear what the Black Panther entry means by saying it "zigzags the trope" by saying Wakanda was originally written as being spared the scramble for Africa by luck, or by not having the Wakandans be perfect paragons.

Edited by DaibhidC
Levitator Since: Mar, 2017
May 19th 2019 at 9:12:02 PM •••

I really don't think "Speculative Fiction that involves racial themes" counts. Doesn't it have to be specifically African-cultured futuristic settings?

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
Dec 15th 2017 at 12:08:52 AM •••

Get Out the film is used as an example of Afrofuturism when it is not. In fact, Jordan Peele was specifically invoking the aesthetic of Rosemary's Baby and the Stepford Wives for this movie, and not anything specifically African/Pan-African. And it's not even set in the future, not even 20 minutes into the future, but in the very 'here' present. Basically, having a sci-fi (ish) horror movie that centers on black people/discusses issues affecting black people, does not make something afrofuturistic.

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DrSleep Since: Sep, 2014
Dec 15th 2017 at 8:15:44 AM •••

"Basically, having a sci-fi (ish) horror movie that centers on black people/discusses issues affecting black people, does not make something afrofuturistic."

That is the literal definition of Afrofuturism. Speculative fiction centered on black people and exploring issues related to black people.

There's plenty of work considered Afrofuturist that doesn't explicitly take place in the future, but rather in the present or even past (See Mumbo Jumbo or anything by Charles R. Saunders). Again, it's a catchall term for any kind of speculative fiction. Peele taking influence from non-Afrofuturist works doesn't negate Afrofuturist elements of the movie, plenty of Afrofuturist works take influence from non-Afrofuturists (See Monae and all the visual inspiration she takes from Metropolis).

And if you're looking for outside confirmation on Get Out as an Afrofuturist work: Here's an Esquire article explicitly linking the two, and here's a UCLA professor who teaches courses on Afrofuturism talking about how she considers horror an aspect of Afrofuturism and is using Get Out to teach classes about black Speculative Fiction.

everlasting First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regent of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons Since: Apr, 2014
First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regent of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons
Nov 2nd 2017 at 5:00:13 PM •••

I posted this initially the Trope Launcher, not realizing the trope was already launched.

Afrocentrism

Will this be expanded or just left as it is? It is a negative trait after all. There is a reason why African-American historians like Clarence E. Walker have called it "a mythology that is racist, reactionary, essentially therapeutic and is Eurocentrism in black face." Which is why it needs to be rewritten and order of paragraphs needs to be swapped IMO. Keep the definition, talk about the positives, and then about the negatives. This is an example of a positive coming from Afrofuturism:

Another common aspect of Afrofuturism is deliberate pushback against the lack of black (or at least non-white) characters in science fiction, and stereotypes of Africa as a primitive third-world nation and its people as savages or poverty-stricken waifs who can't grasp superior Western technology.

And Dery's essay provides examples of such Afrocentrist views, since is historically inaccurate, and a type of inaccuracy created by Eurocentrism as expected, though I don't intend to open that can of worms now.

But this has to be mentioned in the description what it is. It's the only adjective used in this sentence "elements of Science Fiction, Historical Fiction, Fantasy, Afrocentrism, and Magic Realism " that doesn't link to its own page, so I guess it has to be explained in this particular page here.

Simply put, Afrocentrism keeps Eurocentrist narratives as the privileged views, except for the people involved change to black. Bad History has tackled this multiple times in the past, so if you want examples, just read those. It can act as criticism of Eurocentrism if done deliberately, but can also continue spreading the issues of Eurocentrism if not so.

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DrSleep Since: Sep, 2014
Nov 3rd 2017 at 4:05:30 AM •••

The article is using "afrocentrism" in its broadest terms, "focused on the history of black Africans", since that's kind of a crucial element to Afrofuturism - re-centering the speculative fiction genre around black people, and re-interpreting black history and culture as pushback against existing bigoted narratives. That definition's cut and paste directly from the other wiki, and IMO if Wikipedia holds this to be a legitimate use of the term "afrocentrism", then I don't feel it's wrong to use it here.

The examples you give are certainly legitimate cases of bad history inspired by Afrocentric thinking (and Lord knows I've seen my own fair share of Afrocentric history-revisionism stupidity), but I don't think they necessarily invalidate the way "afrocentrism" is being used here. Again, it's being used in its widest, most literal definition - "centered on Africans"

The paragraph you cite...do you have a specific problem with it? Also, when you're talking about "positives" and "negatives" are you referring to Afrocentrism or Afrofuturism? The way you describe the article, it sounds like you think it's in need of a massive overhaul.

everlasting Since: Apr, 2014
Nov 3rd 2017 at 9:30:51 PM •••

Thank you for your answer. Sorry if this next paragraphs sound rude, it's not my intention, I'm on a phone and I'm trying to be succinct.

If you're gonna use only the most liberal definition, is it possible to make a footnote on that, other articles here that might cause confusions like this have footnotes.

The paragraph italicized is perfectly fine because it describes the empowering element of Afrofuturism which is what Afrofuturism intends to be. Now that I'm clarified on the definition above, it doesn't need any form of rewriting. It was caused from misunderstanding on my side.

Dery's comment is historically inaccurate, though. Tha is going to haunt me.

DrSleep Since: Sep, 2014
Nov 4th 2017 at 8:27:54 AM •••

It's cool. I linked to the Webster definition of afrocentrism, which defines it the way I (and Wikipedia) use it in the article, so hopefully that should nip any potential confusion in the bud. As for Dery well, can't help you there :P

everlasting Since: Apr, 2014
Nov 4th 2017 at 4:38:31 PM •••

The link you provided is good.

Well, I guess this is it.

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
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