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Make Private (For security bugs or stuff only for moderators)

2nd Mar, 2021 02:42:46 PM

A link would be appreciated. Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say "changing an actual fact to a common fanfic set up".

2nd Mar, 2021 02:46:42 PM

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/Daken

He is canon bi but the same person keeps saying he's ace and even the author they quoted never said that. Also sociopath and a few other traits. The fanfic love making him ace to atone or something.

Edited by night_goddess666
2nd Mar, 2021 02:50:47 PM

I have a haunting feeling confronting them would just make them double down as I have the suspicions I know exactly who they are because they are the most vocal in a very small community.

Edited by night_goddess666
2nd Mar, 2021 02:56:30 PM

It okay if I summon them here?

2nd Mar, 2021 02:58:25 PM

^^ That sounds like either a ban evader or off-site drama, neither of which is desirable.

Either way, ^, I'd say summon them here, or we least message them.

Edited by sgamer82
2nd Mar, 2021 02:59:48 PM

By all means go ahead but it's a "I will die on this hill" situation even though the material states otherwise lol

2nd Mar, 2021 03:01:21 PM

Also why do people keep acting like I'm the jerk for correcting incorrect statements on a page for a character? What else is this website for except facts and the like about characters?

2nd Mar, 2021 03:03:30 PM

On a related note, that entire page needs a ton of work. Zero context examples by the dozen, bad indentation...

2nd Mar, 2021 03:07:36 PM

Yeah if it didn't have hyperlinks to the tropes themselves it would be an entirely unreadable block of text. I was trying to explain something to a friend and the glaring errors made me make an account here to take the egregious ones out.

2nd Mar, 2021 03:36:43 PM

this isn't a rant, I'm commenting on incorrect info. That's what reviews are for.
This is what discussion pages are for. Reviews are there to review the work, not the work page.

Edit: ^^^^ Why do you want to die on a hill? I can't follow.

Edit again: If you took a look at the discussion page you'd see that there already is a related discussion thread.

Edited by Sirena
2nd Mar, 2021 03:51:29 PM

I was trying to explain something to a friend and the glaring errors made me make an account here to take the egregious ones out.
Another editor joins the ranks, mwuah-ha-ha-haaa

Why do you want to die on a hill? I can't follow.
Idiomatic expression meaning to defend a specific claim, not always with a reason beyond the claim itself.

Edited by crazysamaritan
2nd Mar, 2021 04:00:54 PM

Okay, lots of aggression here. I'd like to know what it means that you "think you know who I am". Sounds like a threat.

That entry about asexuality is from 2014. I didn't even read X-men in 2014. Didn't even know Wolverine had a son yet. Not sure why you don't check. Also not sure why you think I should have assumed the original entry was a lie.

Hope the rest of you are well.

Edited by Ymirsdaughter
2nd Mar, 2021 04:15:06 PM

^^ And often at personal expense not justified by the nature of the claim you're so adamant about defending.

2nd Mar, 2021 04:20:20 PM

Okay, one thing I missed and finally noticed is the reviews. The reviews of Daken, by nightgoddess, are comments about people's edits and not actual reviews of any comics. That's not really appropriate. (Maybe all the rest of you have seen that already and I'm the one having a slow brain day, heh.)

I mean, that's not what reviews are for. They're for writing reviews of the comics, not for discussing the trope page.

Edited by MichaelKatsuro
2nd Mar, 2021 04:40:23 PM

The asexual example is badly-written anyway. If Word of God says something, you're supposed to say where it said that. Give an actual source, so we're not just taking someone's word for it (and also so it won't make that ugly question mark warning icon appear next to the link).

That said, making a review that's about the trope page itself rather than the comic is definitely the wrong move.

Edited by Zuxtron
2nd Mar, 2021 04:56:24 PM

Comic book writers are generally more Word of Dante or Word of Saint Paul, because different writers may have different takes on a character. The only exceptions are when the person is the creator of the character, when the person is talking about some trivia connected to the creation of the story, or when their comments are about a self-contained story.

Other than that, comic book characters get tossed around so much that no single writer usually constitutes "God".

2nd Mar, 2021 05:18:44 PM

^ Good point, under that reasoning, I can believe that maybe some writers write Daken as bi and others say he's asexual. Though, I don't know enough about him to really tell either way.

It'd REALLY help if the people involved in this argument actually gave sources confirming his sexuality.

EDIT: Actually, now I see that one example does give evidence of him being bi.

Edited by Zuxtron
2nd Mar, 2021 05:24:30 PM

^ The point nightgoddess is making is that the asexuality in this case isn't an example of Depending on the Writer. It was never a thing. So even if comic writers are Word of Saint Paul, the bisexuality is still the highest level of canon available. If Kelly Thompson confirmed Daken was bisexual when she wrote X Factor, and no other source that is equal or higher on the canon ladder has conflicted with that, then that IS the canon.

While it was inappropriate to use the review section to lodge her complaints, nightgoddess's reasoning is still valid. Her making her case in the wrong section of the site doesn't actually make her wrong. That'd be fallacious.

2nd Mar, 2021 05:24:39 PM

^^I said it was discussed in X-Factor. It's in the first issue of the 2020 run. But that was shot down as "flair".

Edited by Ymirsdaughter
2nd Mar, 2021 05:41:53 PM

I have every single issue, that is not true.

2nd Mar, 2021 05:51:10 PM

How do I report gaslighting?

2nd Mar, 2021 05:53:30 PM

I went and looked it through it just to be sure, that is nowhere in there. I am not gaslighting you for pointing out that isn't in the comics.

Edited by night_goddess666
2nd Mar, 2021 05:54:07 PM

That all seems like an issue that could be discussed on the corresponding discussion page.

2nd Mar, 2021 05:54:57 PM

Perhaps posting scans as evidence would help resolve this issue.

2nd Mar, 2021 05:59:29 PM

Oh my bad. I thought it was nightgoddess's edit that included the Kelly Thompson claim.

The closest actual claim by writers of the character that I can find is from 2009:

'Liu said that Daken will "do anyone and anything" to achieve his goals and he's "past that kind of identification. He's beyond it." Way added that Daken's sexuality will be addressed later on, but it's more about his personality. "He's no more homosexual than he is heterosexual. It's about control."'

So until someone provides a more recent source, it seems like he is "beyond sexuality labels."

2nd Mar, 2021 06:00:40 PM

He literally calls aurora sexy on page 14 of xfactor #2. It is taken geniunely. He spends every brief appearance in this comic hitting on her or something similar.

Edited by night_goddess666
2nd Mar, 2021 06:01:28 PM

^^^I would, but don't know how to put photos in these boxes.

Edited by Ymirsdaughter
2nd Mar, 2021 06:03:47 PM

Someone seems to have forgotten whether they were arguing that he's not ace or that he's not bi. Are you saying he's straight now?

2nd Mar, 2021 06:05:09 PM

^^^ that doesn't discredit the above quotes by Marjorie Liu and Daniel Way so the point is still "provide a more recent confirmation by a writer." Confirmation being an actual statement about his sexuality, rather than flirting or having sex with someone.

Edited by BeanWiggin
2nd Mar, 2021 06:06:34 PM

Someone seems to be getting salty that no one is taking their head canon. Bi people can be in straight relationships. That's you know part of it.

Edited by night_goddess666
2nd Mar, 2021 06:16:27 PM

I was arguing that was bi, though.

2nd Mar, 2021 06:18:45 PM

Okay, uploaded it to avatars. Now, how to I get it to this thread?

2nd Mar, 2021 06:20:25 PM

It's your current avatar. Though the text is tinier than the brain of a [insert political party you dislike] member.

Edited by MichaelKatsuro
2nd Mar, 2021 06:25:02 PM

How about now? As for the rest, you guys sort it out.

2nd Mar, 2021 06:25:47 PM

That says he's a disaster bisexual, not ace.

2nd Mar, 2021 06:26:01 PM

Misuse of reviews deleted due to request.

2nd Mar, 2021 06:27:14 PM

For the record, you can upload photos to ATT the same way you can upload them to trope pages.

2nd Mar, 2021 06:27:56 PM

Thank you, that was my bad for not quite getting what y'all used them for. That proves the bi thing but I had to take out straight "asexual" before it was edited to it's current state. Before the same section said he was ace, anyone can see that in the history and it's wrong. Before it said he only had sex for manipulation and was therefore ace.

Edited by night_goddess666
2nd Mar, 2021 06:32:50 PM

Great, then I'll go back to my old avatar.

2nd Mar, 2021 06:53:19 PM

Tl;dr your claim in your original post that one user keeps going back and changing the page to include that Daken is asexual is incorrect. You're both claiming that he is bisexual.

Ok either you're chasing each other in circles or someone is gaslighting someone else.

So to make this clear, I'll give an actual history of the edits so people don't have to keep scrolling.

2014: ladymomus makes the YMMV page and adds a Depraved Bisexual entry and an Asexuality entry

In-between then and now several users edit the Asexuality and Depraved Bisexual entries and I have 4% so I am not listen them all

Feb 28 2021: nightgoddess removes the asexuality entry for reason "headcanon"

Feb 28: ymirsdaughter edits the Depraved Bisexual entry to no longer state Daken is asexual, but rather that he was THOUGHT to be asexual, and that he was confirmed bi(in the comic she added to her avagar gallery)

Mar 2: nightgoddess removes Villainous Aromantic Asexual entry

Mar 2: ymirsdaughter removes the asexuality reference from Depraved Bisexual and provides more context to the example

So, 1) you two aren't editing the same tropes. This is several tropes being edited/removed and 2) you two don't actually seem to be contradicting each other. Neither of you ever claimed that Daken was asexual. I think nightgoddess mistook the "people thought Daken was asexual" edit from Feb 28th to be ymirsdaughter making a definitive statement, when it wasn't.

You both are arguing he is bisexual. At least that's what the edit timeline shows. Not sure what the argument is about anymore lol.

Edited by BeanWiggin
3rd Mar, 2021 09:20:50 AM

Not to throw more gasoline on this wildfire, but...

"Pansexual" is also a thing. Amongst other terms.

3rd Mar, 2021 10:40:46 AM

^ The issue at hand isn't whether he is pansexual. It's the edits being made, which as I've shown are not nearly as bad as OP implied.

3rd Mar, 2021 11:29:02 AM

^^ I mean, if he literally called himself bisexual specifically then we can safely assume he's bisexual. Not sure why we need to open it up to other arguments when this query is ridiculously long enough.

The thing that's really adding a wrench into this is that it's possible to be asexual and bisexual (or biromantic really, but you can use either it's fine) but from context I'm assuming the "asexual" in this context meant "aromantic asexual."

3rd Mar, 2021 11:56:07 AM

That isn't throwing a wrench into at all. NOBODY in this thread is arguing he is asexual. Both people involved were arguing that he is bi. They just confused themselves and everyone by not taking 5 minutes to read the edit history.

4th Mar, 2021 01:18:19 PM

No, I read it. Still didn't get what her problem was.

4th Mar, 2021 01:46:42 PM

If you would turn the other cheek and just let it go, this would all be resolved.

As I explained, nightgoddess saw that you edited the Depraved Bisexuality entry to remove the mention of asexuality. She misread that and thought you were claiming Daken was asexual. This caused a whole bunch of confusion and name calling.

It was literally a misunderstanding, and you two constantly going at each other isn't helping anything.

You both agree that Daken is bisexual. Neither of you claimed he is asexual. It was a misunderstanding. Can we PLEASE lock this?

4th Mar, 2021 02:24:31 PM

^^ They apologized. As this query has gone on long enough, it will now be locked. If there are further points to be made about the character's sexuality, I expect that they can be made in PM or on the discussion page (not reviews ;-P ).

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